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Benefits of pregnenolone???

Discussion in 'Male Health & HRT' started by heapsreal, Nov 23, 2010.

  1. heapsreal

    heapsreal New Member

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    Ive read the basics about preg but can someone explain more about the benefits of preg and how it interacts with other hormones like dhea and test. I understand preg also effects cortisol and this also has an effect on testosterone i believe. I would appreciate more info in this.

    cheers!!!
     
  2. chilln

    chilln Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Understanding hormones cannot be done one-hormone-at-a-time the way you've framed the question.

    If understanding hormones were so simple, all our forum members would need to do would be read a single page on all of our critical hormones (around 20) and then they'd know everything they needed to know to resuscitate their hormones, without the help of a medical professional adviser other than to write a few prescriptions.

    In case it's not self evident from what I just wrote, you're dreaming.

    The nasty nasty nasty part about understanding hormones is they are all all very very very dependent on each other. When one is modulated, it affects most of the others in a cascade.

    In other words, you actually have to learn about hormones in exactly the opposite way you've tried to frame your question. You can only learn and understand hormones and hormone modulation therapy, with any degree of accuracy, by learning all about all of the hormones working as a complete group.

    And since the vast majority of people (and that includes many doctors too) refuse to dedicate sufficient time to this process of knowledge acquistion, therefore they never acquire sufficient knowledge to reliably modulate someone's hormones. But they'll happily take people's money while claiming they can reliably modulate someone's hormones.

    ###

    If you are prepared to make a start, then you'll need to read the following:

    (these are all works-in-progress which is why many of them are jumbled up and need to be be "de-jumbled" and better sectioned)

    1) Hormones 101:
    ...part 1: http://allthingsmale.com/forum/showpost.php?p=116710&postcount=2
    ...part 2: http://allthingsmale.com/forum/showpost.php?p=116711&postcount=3
    ...part 3: http://allthingsmale.com/forum/showpost.php?p=116803&postcount=4

    2) HOWTO address too low testosterone 101:
    ...part 1: http://allthingsmale.com/forum/showpost.php?p=102304&postcount=11
    ...part 2: http://allthingsmale.com/forum/showpost.php?p=102305&postcount=12

    3) HOWTO address too low cortisol 101:
    ...part 1: http://allthingsmale.com/forum/showpost.php?p=86299&postcount=11
    ...part 2: http://allthingsmale.com/forum/showpost.php?p=86394&postcount=12
    ...part 3: http://allthingsmale.com/forum/showpost.php?p=120465&postcount=13

    4) HOWTO address too low thryoid hormones 101:
    ...part 1: http://allthingsmale.com/forum/showpost.php?p=82716&postcount=12

    5) HOWTO address too low testosterone 101:
    ...part 1: http://allthingsmale.com/forum/showpost.php?p=102304&postcount=11
    ...part 2: http://allthingsmale.com/forum/showpost.php?p=102305&postcount=12

    6) HOWTO address too high cortisol 101:
    ...part 1: http://allthingsmale.com/forum/showpost.php?p=121439&postcount=3

    If you get through all of these, and understand them somehwat, then you will finally have understood pregnenolone, its benefits, and you'll also realize why no-one can present information about hormones one-hormone-at-a-time.

    .
     
  3. heapsreal

    heapsreal New Member

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    Thanks for the links i understand what your getting at and that was my point but it didnt seem to come across like that. Yes, i want to learn more about how preg works in the whole hormone restoration thing, most of the info out there is like u said it just talks about it in isolation and i know theres more to it then that. I think it was one of your replies about preg and cortisol effecting testosterone levels that interested me. I think i have a switched on doc but want to be armed with the knowledge to drive him down the right path , so to speak.

    cheers and thanks again!!!
     
  4. heapsreal

    heapsreal New Member

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    ps, quick run down on myself. i have an immune defiency and have test level in upper 1/3 and low free test, E2 is high(39) and went higher(52) on 50mg of dhea and no real effect on other hormones, so i dropped the dhea and the doc.my new doc put me on arimidex 1/2 twice a week, not on trt, waiting for next lot of results and would like to add dhea and pregnenolone for energy and immune enhancement. So far on arimidex for 4 weeks i have lost some of the spare tyre and feeling better in the sex drive front. previous thyroid has been good, vit d was low but now in upper range. Lymphocytes are chronically elevated ( had good response with antiviral meds)and have poor natural killer cell function which im hoping correcting these hormones can help with this. anymore advice appreciated.

    cheers!!!
     
  5. heapsreal

    heapsreal New Member

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    Extremely quick clance but need to reread it again. u mentioned not neededing dhea as a male, my reading were low 2.8 (2.2-15.5), these came up to 7 with 50mg dhea a day but shot my E2 54. So would i be best to use preg to increase dhea. From past blood tests my morning cortisol levels have been at the bottom of normal range, so preg could probably help there. Also most people with imune defiency's have alot of inflammation from cytokine responses to viral infections, so increasing anti-inflammatory hormones could help alot with chronic pain etc.

    Anymore thoughts?

    cheers!!!
     
  6. chilln

    chilln Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    start by reading:

    2) HOWTO address too low testosterone 101:
    ...part 1: http://allthingsmale.com/forum/showpost.php?p=102304&postcount=11

    the critical info is:


    * T serum levels (eg: bioavailable T) and T metabolism are not the same thing. For the same serum T levels our T metabolism will be high when our cortisol is low, and for the same serum T levels our T metabolism will be low when our cortisol is high.

    *** But we can quickly confirm our T metabolism from the combination of our damage tolerance plus our serum total E2 levels (more on this later...)

    * DHT serum levels and DHT metabolism are not the same thing. For the same serum DHT levels our DHT metabolism will be high when our cortisol is low, and for the same serum DHT levels our DHT metabolism will be low when our cortisol is high.

    *** But we can quickly determine our DHT metabolism from the combination of our libido, hairiness and our urinary DHT metabolite profile.

    * The most common reason why either E2 is high (and thus DHT metabolism is also high), or SHBG is high, or both E2 (including DHT metabolism) and SHBG are all too high, before commencing any hormone modulation therapy, is because there isn't enough cortisol floating around to downregulate T metabolism adequately (usually because of age-related-hormonal-decline of our cortisol production line), so the body has to take evasive action to reduce T metabolism. It does this either by:
    a) converting some of the available T into E2 (and DHT), because E2 downregulates T and DHT metabolism very strongly
    or:
    b) upregulating SHBG, because SHBG binds to T and effectively takes it out-of-service.

    * When our body cranks E2 to downregulate T (and DHT) metabolism, the high E2 wreaks havoc with our neurotransmitter balance, in ways which ruin our erection performance. But the fact that cortisol was initially too low usually means pregnenolone was initially too low, which means neurotransmitters were initially too low.

    * When our body cranks SHBG to downregulate our T (and DHT) metabolism, the side effects on neurotransmitters are less drastic than when our body uses E2 to downregulate our T (and DHT) metabolism. But the fact that cortisol was initially too low usually means pregnenolone was initially too low, which means neurotransmitters were initially too low.

    * Increasing cortisol downregulates our T (and DHT) metabolism, which reverses any previous E2 and DHT and / or SHBG excesses which our body implemented due to too low cortisol.

    * Increasing cortisol should result in a pregenolone increase (provided no adrenal enzyme deficiencies) which will result in a neurotransmitter increase.

    *** While you probably think that you don't want your testosterone metabolism downregulated at all, if you don't use cortisol to do it, then your body will either:
    a) synthesize E2 and DHT out of your T and then your body will use the E2 to downregulate your testosterone metabolism.
    or:
    b) crank your SHBG to downregulate your testosterone metabolism.

    *** You cannot run away from downregulating your T. It must be done. And you must use cortisol to do it not E2 and not SHBG. Hence you may need your cortisol boosted to achieve this.

    *** Males who think that they can "beat the system" by operating at low cortisol and taking arimidex to suppress E2 and taking finasteride to suppress DHT metabolism, or taking nettle root extract to suppress SHBG, are doing this based on insufficient knowledge of hormones, because too low cortisol means too low pregnenolone, which means too low neurotransmitters. Having too low neurotransmitters means the brain cannot coordinate the larger volume of messages resulting from increased overall metabolism, which includes the increased volume of repair messages triggered by higher T metabolism.

    .
     
  7. heapsreal

    heapsreal New Member

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    Thanks chillin, just read afew think about pregnenolone steel, does this appear to be happening to me. I have had about 8 years of chronic stress through infections etc plus working shift work, sleep is terrible and i see that preg helps with stage 3/4 sleep. A previous sleep study ruled out apnea but had little stage 3/4 sleep. i have intermittent periods of restless leg syndrome as well. Im supplemented to the hilt with anti-oxidants etc, sleep meds etc.
     
  8. heapsreal

    heapsreal New Member

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    chillin, when u talk about neurotransmitters are u refering to serotonin, noradrenaline and dopamine?
     
  9. mrevis

    mrevis New Member

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    I'm having the same issue as well with DHEA and increase in e2. My natural t levels are now in mid 500's and I got dhea in good range, but e2 is at 35 and erections are really weak, no libido, and brain fog. SHBG is at 24 as well. I take arimidex 1/4 per per week, but can never get it to hit the sweet spot or stay there which is the hardest to do. Not sure how I can raise dhea without raising e2. I'm on HC tablets at 20mg per day. I just can't figure how to control e2 which was the main reason I came off trt in the first place.

    when I stopped dhea I became really stressed out right away so I need something to raise it.
     
  10. mrevis

    mrevis New Member

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    Would preg do raise dhea, but without raising e2?
     
  11. seekonk

    seekonk Active Member

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    That is why I got off TRT also.

    It should be easier to control E2 off TRT, because now your HPTA will help you by pumping out more T to try to keep E2 from going too low, so you may need a significantly higher dose to control E2. See this article - 1mg of arimidex a day reduced E2 by about 20%.

     
  12. seekonk

    seekonk Active Member

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    I would love to know the answer to this also. I have low DHEA but don't want to raise E2.
     
  13. mrevis

    mrevis New Member

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    Actually 1mg a week will reduce e2 about 50%. I know this based on 5 years of labs and trial and error. Dr Mariano also said it could cut it 50% with 1mg per week. 1mg per day killed my joints and made me feel horrible so I won't do that again. It may be easier then on trt, but still a hassle. I've been trying to hit the sweet spot for 5-6 months already and no luck!! With my shbg being around 24, I only need my e2 between 24-30 so I don't need a large dose. First knowing your there (sweet spot) and staying is a ****ing nightmare!!

    It's really hard to know your there cause I don't feel different and by the time I get lab results it's a week or two gone by so e2 is different then.

    I really need to figure this out. When I dropped dhea for a week my libido started coming on slowing and felt like it was going to break out, but the stress was driving me nuts. Hopefully someone can chime in on how to increase dhea without e2 problems.
     
  14. seekonk

    seekonk Active Member

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    That is for people on TRT whose HPTA is shut down. It doesn't apply to people not on TRT who have a functioning HPTA. Off TRT, forget everything that applied on TRT.

    Off TRT, with a functioning HPTA, your body will compensate the E2-lowering effect of arimidex by making more E2 (via raising T). Low doses of arimidex can be compensated completely by this mechanism and may therefore not budge E2 at all, so you may need to go higher, maybe not to 1mg/day but at least higher than the dose you are currently taking. If you are at E2 = 35 with your current dose and assuming E2 = 35 is too high for you (everybody's sweet spot is different), then this is a no-brainer.
     
  15. mrevis

    mrevis New Member

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    I get what your saying and it makes sense. I was on 1mg of arimidex per week and e2 went from 35 to 9 after 4 weeks....so that was too high then I went to a half and was at 17 and my joints killed....guess I'll have to keep trying, but man does this suck!!

    There has to be another way.
     
  16. Suffering

    Suffering Banned

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    E2 in men is made in adrenals, sort out adrenal functioning i guess you sort out e2 balance. Thats how i see it anyway.
     
  17. pmgamer18

    pmgamer18 Prince of the Forums

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    My Dr. lets me dose my Arimidex by how I feel read this file I made on not going to low.
    ===================================
    How To Take Arimdex and not go down on your Estradiol to Low.

    What I found is if you go to low taking arimidex, it's the length of time your to low, if your too low say for 8 weeks it can take your body a longer time to make more Estradiol. Bottom line is to know how not to go to low. Keep a log on your dose and how you feel men going to low can't get it up taking Viagra. I went to low when I first tried Arimidex and did not know about going to low or how one feels to low, so I was low a good 8 weeks. I did not know I was low until my next labs.

    The best gage I have found to control your Estradiol levels is to gage your night time and morning wood. At good levels or what I call the sweet spot you get your night time and morning wood back so strong it will wake you up and you can hang a coat on it.

    Most men do good taking .25 mgs or 1/4 of a 1mg. pill, I use a pill cutter to cut the small pill in half then I stand it on the cut end and use a single edge razor to cut this in half. A good way to take arimidex is by how high your levels are. I tested over 90 pg/ml so we tried doing .5 mgs every other day after 8 weeks my next set of labs showed it did not move below 90, test said >90. So we did .5 mgs. every day in about 2 weeks I got some strong night time and morning wood back after not having them for many yrs.

    I kept doing this dose and in 8 weeks my next set of labs said <20 back in the day labs were like this they did not have to good labs we have today they could not read lower the 20. My Dr. told me this looks to low to stop taking the Arimidex. The one thing I noticed was my wood stopped and stopping the Arimidex my wood came back in about 7 weeks my next test at 8 weeks was 24 pg/ml. So we went back on the Arimidex but the Dr. told me to take .5 mgs every 3 days I was on this dose not a week and lost wood. This is when I figured out going to low you lose wood. And the longer your too low the longer it takes to get levels back up.

    I stopped the arimidex right away and got my wood back in 4 days. I then after playing with the dose for a time found the best dose is .25mgs every 2 to 3 days.

    So lets say your labs are less the 50 pg/ml if your take .5 mgs you can go down so dam fast your miss the sweet spot of your wood and go to low. It's best with lower levels 50 and under to do less Arimidex .25mgs every 2 days if later your lose wood when it comes back go to every 3 days.

    I have found estradiol is the hardest hormone to control, it goes up or down from month to month some times I need .25mgs every 2 days other times I need .25mgs everyday most of the time I do well on every 3 days.

    So between wood and labs I do great and so do most of the men I have told this to. I keep a log on how much I am taking and how I feel. Doing this and reading back in my log I was able to tell when I was going to high or to low my Dr. lets me dose my arimidex by how I feel.

    Over the yrs. I have posted this story until I am blue in the face.


    ----------------------------------------------------------------

    This is a copy by chilln.
    Most compounding pharmacies will require a prescription from a doctor, before they do this.

    Once your prescription says "300 caps x 0.1mg" or "600 caps x 0.05mg" anastrozole "from 1 to 4 daily", (anastrozole = generic arimidex) then they will compound your arimidex, or generic anastrozole, and they will usually supply the arimidex as compounded into the caps you require.

    My compounding pharmacist was prepared to allow me to supply the arimidex too. If you have several boxes of arimidex in your cupboard, then you may want to ask your pharmacist to do this for you.

    If you don't have any arimidex stores, then just let the compounding pharmacy supply the whole lot.

    ###

    A pack of 30 tabs of 1.0mg arimidex will give 300 caps at 0.1mg-per-cap, or 600 caps at 0.05mg-per-cap.

    So if your pharmacy chooses to supply arimidex as opposed to generic anastrozole, then your pharmacy will most likely not agree to only charge you for a half-a-box of arimidex, and most likely they'll charge for a whole box, even if your prescription says 300 caps at 0.05mg-per-cap (total of 15mg)

    .
     
  18. seekonk

    seekonk Active Member

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    But was that while you were on TRT?

    If you are now off TRT, your body will not respond the same way to arimidex as it did on TRT.
     
  19. seekonk

    seekonk Active Member

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    No, that is not correct.
     
  20. mrevis

    mrevis New Member

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    my issue is that when I'm too low or high my erection feel that same. I've been at it for 5-6 months with arimidex, but no trt. In the past I was on trt for years and had same issue, but I knew when too low cause like you said phil judge by erections....this is no longer the case with arimidex and no trt. I need to figure some other way to raise dhea without increasing e2 cause I'm not dealing with arimidex and e2 for life which is why I stopped trt. E2 is the sole reason for stopping trt.
     

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