Discussion in 'Male Health & HRT' started by Bulldog, Jan 21, 2019.
Do doctors really ask themselves the question if estrogen is good, bad or indifferent in men?
About to watch it, and realized it was a few years old.
There is a more recent podcast from him,
Thanks for sharing.
Shortly before Dr. Crisler's passing he himself came to agree with Dr. Rouzier and even weened himself off of his AI.
That is a very similar presentation to the older one. But the one with Jay Campbell is good as well.
That was part 1 of a 3 part series.
Here is Part 2
Here is Part 3
Well, surely Dr Crisler understood the importance of estrogen.
Even years ago, I was big on touting the important of E2, although after listening to that podcast, it seemed like they were light years behind what I saw as common knowledge on these forums 5 or however many years ago.
E2 was easily the hormone I was able to "feel"... when it got too low you knew it was bad... when it started to spike... you knew it was bad. Physically and mentally, it was a powerful, "fast" acting sort of hormone. Ultimately, it seemed like a tightrope albeit manageable.
I listened to a related podcast and apparently the thing now seems to be avoid AI's altogether. I guess I'm curious what they do to limit aromatization. My only best guess is to simply lower the T dose, and accept whatever number that is that you can maxmize. Some people aromatize so readily, which makes things so much less cut-and-dry.
But that's why it's a bell curve. There are always people on the fringes of "average."
I am sorry but I don’t agree with men high on E2 levels stopping there E2 meds. I have been on them for yrs. and I had Heart Bypass surgery 6 or 7 yrs ago.
My heart Dr. was an Endo in Italy treating men and women for low or high hormones. We he came to the USA he switch to being a heart Dr. He feels keeping T levels up into the upper 1/3 of the range and to keep E2 in the upper normal range.
I have heard this to me bad info about not taking AI's for yrs. I don't know of anyone that had a bad effect from using it the right way.
I would never stop using my E2 meds living with low T and high E2 is hell.
Not to long ago a VA Dr. treating men in there 80's with T that died from a heart problem. Put a study out there saying using T is bad for the heart he was so off base and never heard the end of it.
You have to admit Phil that your case is different than most. I completely understand your need for an AI.
Most guy's however should not go down that road. Dose adjustment of testosterone is a more favorable way to control E2 for those on TRT. Lifestyle management (diet, weight loss etc...) is preferable for those with excessive aromatization who are not on TRT.
Estrogen for the most part is not clearly understood in males. I agree with LT regarding being able to "feel" estrogen. The psychological and emotional effects of estrogen are powerful, and necessary for a happy balanced life. Like everything else, we each have our own genetic set point and there is no magic number that fits all.
You make a good point I am Hypopituitary still if all what you say does not work then they will not feel better until they get E2 down.
There are a lot of men on TRT that don't need to balance E2 I think more then most know about.
Dr. Crisler came to agree with this opinion himself shortly before his passing. He even came off AI’s himself and said he felt great and was going to post some lab results. Unfortunately we will never see those labs or hear anymore from him about it.
I agree Phil, some men need it.
You state the doctor likes E2 in the upper normal range. The use of armidex has typically been used to lower E2 to 20ish (lower quartile), so not sure what you are saying is inconsistent with Rouzier.
So, does Rouzier supplement estradiol or just not suppress it?
I have never heard of anyone supplementing estrogen in males, with exception of MTF sex change, so with respect, your question is somewhat off base.
Based on reports I've heard, Dr. Crisler spoke to many colleagues in the days leading up to his death. He also had several posts he considered inflammatory in hindsight removed from the ExcelMale forum. I have to suspect that he did that for a particular purpose, perhaps he wanted to part company on a good note. He became very agreeable in the last days.
Considering that, I have to question his true beliefs on the topic of estradiol management. Of course we'll never know now. One thing is for certain: Dr. Nichols is using Dr. Crisler's statements on the topic to his advantage, and is using Jay Campbell as a stage to do it. I've had email correspondence with Dr. Nichols's wife Angie, and she quoted what Dr. Crisler said as evidence that I should adopt their protocol.
Given how good I feel now, there's no chance of that in the short term.
Was just a question as it wasn't clear to me his position.
He only suggests that you should let your natural aromatization happen...not supplement estrogen. From what I gather the theory is that when your testosterone levels are at a good level the higher estrogen only has positive effects on health and if you are genetically predisposed to develope gyno it will most likely happen even if you are using an AI. So there is no point in possibly hurting your health by blocking estrogen, and you are better off titrating and adjusting the frequency of your dose of testosterone to control estrogen. I have found this to be true for myself. I feel way better on a lower dose of testosterone than I did when I tried to stay in the top 1/4 of the range and use an AI.
Yeah, the title is more inflammatory than what Dr. Rouzer actually has to say about the matter. Always distrust article titles haha!
I've really come to respect Dr. Rouzer - he came out with what appeared to be extremely controversial views on high hemo numbers; it seemed contrary to what everyone had been saying - and, now, it's becoming widely accepted, at least among people in the know. I only donate blood now because I want to - not because I apparently HAD to.
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