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Estradiol Testing

Discussion in 'Male Health & HRT' started by pmgamer18, Feb 9, 2019.

  1. pmgamer18

    pmgamer18 Prince of the Forums

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    Hi all,

    After yrs. of being mod for low T I need help on E2 testing in the last few labs we did both the Estradiol test and the sensitive Estradiol.

    The reg. Estradiol comes back high above the top of the range the sensitive test shows below normal.

    I have Peripheral Neuropathy from Statin Use and am in a lot of pain when I stand up or try to walk with my walker. I fell some time ago and hit my side on the dresser. So when I stand up to walk my side hurts.

    After a time I had a urine test and it showed I have an infection after treating this it's gone.

    Yet I still have this pain in my side when I go to the bath room #2 and lean over to wipe my self it hurts.

    It's hard for me to tell now with this Neuropathy if my joint pain is from low E2 or the Neruropathy.

    I take a lot of Aromasin to keep my E2 in check but it changes from time to time.
    Now I am thinking I am to low.

    What kind of reading to you guys get the do the sensitive E2 test my last one was 3.1 bottom of the range is 8.

    I cut back on my E2 meds from 4 pills to 3 and I think I am still to low. I take 2 pills at 3am and when I wake up I would 2 more. I noticed before taking the other 2 pills at 8am. I have strong morning wood this makes me think I only need 2 pills a day now.

    Can you guys tell me what your E2 sensitive labs are at.
    Phil
     
  2. Youthful55Guy

    Youthful55Guy Member

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    The reg. Estradiol comes back high above the top of the range the sensitive test shows below normal.
    That is to be expected. The standard test is designed to measure E2 in women, which are typically much higher then men. When you throw in a male sample into an assay designed for women, the value returned by the assay will be outside of the linear portion of the assay's standard curve (which is sigmoidal in shape). So, no matter how low you go on E2, the value returned by the assay will always be the low end of sensitivity for which that assay is designed. In other words, If the assay cannot dependably measure values lower than 40 pg/mL, and you throw in a sample that is 25 pg/mL, it will always return 40 as a result.

    What kind of reading to you guys get the do the sensitive E2 test my last one was 3.1 bottom of the range is 8.
    An E2 value of 3.1 is extremely low. I wouldn't doubt that some of your aches and pains are due to low E in addition to your other issues. Why do you continue using so much Aromasin if you know your E2 is way out of range? It would seem to me the obvious answer is to back off on the dosage until you get mid-range E2 values using the proper "Sensitive" assay (using the LC/MS/MS method). In snswer to your question, my values consistently range in the mid-20's to lower 30's depending an my dose of T (generally between 100-120 mg T-cyp/week) and my use of anastrozole (0 to 0.5 mg/week in daily divided doses using the eye dropper method).
     
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  3. pmgamer18

    pmgamer18 Prince of the Forums

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    I think your right and I am cutting back I am down to 3 pills from 4, think I now only need 2 pills. Anastrozole on the dose T I need does not work we keep TT between 700 and 900 to feel good. I do shots E3D 3.5 mgs.
     
  4. Youthful55Guy

    Youthful55Guy Member

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    Not sure I understand your comment on anastrozole. I find the drug extremely effective. The difficulty is in controlling the low dose needed for men with a drug designed for women (lowest available pill is 1 mg). BTW, my TT values are almost always in the 800 to 900 ng/dL range at my standard T dose of 40 to 50 mg T-cyp E3D and when I control my SHBG to mid-range.

    You might find the information below useful for a method I've worked out for dispensing low dose anastrozole. This is a copy/paste from a post I made on another forum oriented more toward anabolic steroid uses interested in TRT and Anti-Aging topics. I hope the links still work. I do not use synthetic anabolic hormones other than low dose stanozolol for control of very high SHBG and I do not condone the use of these drugs either.

    Directions for Vodka/Eye Dropper Method of Dosing Arimidex (Anastrozole)
    Obtain Medicine Eye Dropper & Bottle: Several Options are available from Amazon. I've only calibrated the drop size to dose for the Boston 30 mL Bottle + Measured Marked Dropper Top.
    1. Place 1 (1 mg) tablet into bottle.
    2. Add 1.5 mL vodka. Draw up to 0.75 mL twice with Boston measured dropper (~ 65 drops with Boston measured dropper)
    3. Allow to dissolve completely (relatively quick). Final concentration is about 0.015 mg/drop
    4. Dispense in first glass of drinking water every day. Amount depends on desired weekly dose. I find that with a T dose of ~117 mg per week using E3D dosing (~50 mg E3D) that between 3 to 5 drops per day is sufficient to keep my E levels within 50% to 75% of the upper end of the normal range.
    1 drop/day = ~0.1 mg/week
    2 drops/day = ~0.2 mg/week
    3 drops/day = ~0.3 mg/week
    4 drops/day = ~0.4 mg/week
    5 drops/day = ~0.5 mg/week

    Supply List
    Anastrozole - I use Alpha Pharma Anazoleā„¢ brand obtained through alternative sources.
    Vodka - Any brand 80 Proof (40% alcohol)
    Measured Marked Dropper Top for 30ml 1oz Ounce Boston Round Bottles *10 Pack* ($10.95 Amazon Prime)
    From <https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01604GLRU/ref=sspa_dk_detail_5?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B01604GLRU&pd_rd_wg=tPbcD&pd_rd_r=YB3N0ZPM5ZK3QY1Q2NV9&pd_rd_w=eN130>
    &
    Boston Round Bottles, 1 oz. Pack of 12 ($9.26 Amazon Prime)
    From <https://www.amazon.com/Boston-Round-Bottles-oz-Pack/dp/B003FXOUOQ/ref=pd_bxgy_121_img_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B003FXOUOQ&pd_rd_r=2AFAMTZDW6S4CXB7FXB9&pd_rd_w=s8sYM&pd_rd_wg=5OxwH&psc=1&refRID=2AFAMTZDW6S4CXB7FXB9>

    Other Eye Dropper Options (I have not tried or calibrated):
    Infinity Jars 10 Ml (.34 fl oz) Black Ultraviolet Glass Bottle w/ Glass Eye Dropper (1X 10 mL $9.00 Amazon Prime)
    From <https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VTYX9DQ/ref=sspa_dk_detail_5?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B00VTYX9DQ&pd_rd_wg=tPbcD&pd_rd_r=YB3N0ZPM5ZK3QY1Q2NV9&pd_rd_w=eN130>

    Infinity Jars 5 Ml (.17 fl oz) Black Ultraviolet Glass Bottle w/ Glass Eye Dropper (1X 5 mL $8.00 Amazon Prime)
    From <https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VTYWXG0/ref=sspa_dk_detail_6?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B00VTYWXG0&pd_rd_wg=tPbcD&pd_rd_r=YB3N0ZPM5ZK3QY1Q2NV9&pd_rd_w=eN130>

    1 Oz (30 ml) Amber Glass Bottles Boston round with glass eye dropper 4 pack + Include LABELS for your marking (4X 30 mL $9.65 Amazon Prime)
    From <https://www.amazon.com/Bottles-dropper-Include-marking-convenience/dp/B00RFGLCX6/ref=sr_1_3_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1525365858&sr=8-3&keywords=medicine+eye+dropper>

    WARNING
    Arimidex (Anastrozole) in not stable in a polar solvent like water or alcohol. Therefore, do not make up any more than 1 table solution at a time. Use it to completion and then begin fresh with a new tablet and vodka diluent. I do not rinse out my container with each fresh batch, but with time, some of the insoluble tableting material may build up on the rim of the bottle. You may wish to rinse it for appearance and/or dispose of the bottle and start with a new bottle.

    Notes
    Most guys way over dose on Aromatase Inhibitors (AIs) like Arimidex (Anastrozole) because of locker room wisdom handed down by bodybuilders and recreational steroid users. Guys need Estradiol too for normal erections, libido, and growth hormone secretion. Without it, we go limp with a really bad case of ED and develop other symptoms of Low T.

    Bodybuilders are paranoid of developing gynecomastia (Bitch Tits), and with good reason. Compared to our use in TRT, they use ridiculously high doses of testosterone and often stack this with synthetic anabolic steroids that also have progesterone-like activity. Estradiol is made from testosterone in the body (via an aromatase enzyme). Therefore, the higher testosterone levels go, the higher estradiol will go. It's a simple mass-action conversion. High estradiol in itself puts an individual at risk of gynecomastia, but when it is combined with high progesterone (as occurs during the 3rd trimester of pregnancy in women), there is rapid development of mammary tissue. If you throw high levels of prolactin into the mix, guys can actually begin to lactate. Not exactly what you had in mind for being beach buff with steroids.

    My point is, don't let this hand-me-down locker room wisdom send you down of path that crashes your estrogen levels. Use labs as your guide to dose AIs, and make sure you are getting the correct "sensitive" test using the LC/MS/MS method. Don't let your doc order the standard female test, you will always test high. Here is a link to get the test yourself if your doc can't or won't order it: https://www.discountedlabs.com/estradiol-sensitive-lc-ms-ms.

    Also, be smart with synthetic anabolic steroids if you chose to go down that road. Do your research. Remember too, that I do not provide advice on them, so please don't ask. My advice will always be the same. JUST SAY NO!
     
  5. pmgamer18

    pmgamer18 Prince of the Forums

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    Youthful55guy,

    I take 25 mgs. of Exemestane (Aremasin) now 2x's/day down from 4. Yes I have posted a ton of info about E2 and did well on my dose.

    Never could figure out why the 2 E2 tests showed different levels but we stopped testing both a long time ago. Now that I am having more pain then normal I had the sensitive test done. It came back at a low level I have never seen before 3.1 bottom of the range 8.

    I feel like I am OK still have morning wood yet now that I cut back on the amount of pills my wood is waking me up. So I will see what happens on less.
     
  6. Bulldog

    Bulldog Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Phil, you cannot use the regular E2 test. Only the sensitive or ultrasensitive tests that use the LC/MS/MS methodology are valid for men. The regular E2 tests are not precise enough to accurately report the E2 level in men. If you are running that test you are just wasting your money. If the sensitive or ultrasensitive test consistently shows you as being low then you are low. As for health effects, you are a million times better off health wise with high estrogen than you are with low estrogen. I'm not saying high estrogen is ideal and can't cause issues for some guys, but low estrogen is very very bad for your health...brain, heart, bone, and joint health in particular...issues that you are concerned with.
     
  7. pmgamer18

    pmgamer18 Prince of the Forums

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    Thanks Bulldog,

    I think your right I cut back to 2 pills / day from 4 and so far no panic attacks like I get when my E2 is high.

    I am not cutting back more until I see my next set of labs. I have always said the hardest thing to level and keep leveled is E2.
     
  8. pmgamer18

    pmgamer18 Prince of the Forums

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    Hi all,

    Today I flat out stopped taking the Aromasin I want to see if some of the new pain I am having will go away. If I have a problem I will just go back on it but starting with one half a pill / day.

    I have talked to a lot of people about the Sensitive Estradiol test and all say it now works and is the best test for men.

    It might take me about a week to see a change.
     
    Bulldog likes this.
  9. pmgamer18

    pmgamer18 Prince of the Forums

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  10. Sharpman28

    Sharpman28 Member

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    I think the lesson here is that gauging your E2 via erectile function is not a valid way.

    I'm interested in how your symptoms will improve after cutting back your aromatase dose.
     
  11. pmgamer18

    pmgamer18 Prince of the Forums

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    Hi All,

    After being off Aromasin for a time yesterday I was sweating off and on this made me think my E2 is coming up. That day I had my HCG shot but today so far I am fine.
     

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