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Going from E3D to E5D or even ONCE per Week???

Discussion in 'Male Health & HRT' started by CFIDS, Jun 5, 2014.

  1. CFIDS

    CFIDS Member

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    I would like to know if I'm a good candidate to go 5 days or more between shots...my SHBG was upper range when I began TRT...it came down shortly after starting shots...I want to inject less frequently if possible now...I do 75mg E3D right now and was thinking of going to 100 E5D or something like that?

    ALSO - I currently take .5mg Arimidex 24hrs after each E3D shot...how would I best modify my Arimidex dose/schedule to accommodate a new injections schedule???
     
  2. BadassBlues

    BadassBlues Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Why do you want to go to a less frequent schedule? Something I have been studying is how testosterone is pulsatile. Not to the extent of GH, but we are not meant to have static levels of testosterone (as Dr. C has stated many times). This is a debated subject with guy's who are happy with weekly injections, but there is a circadian rhythm to testosterone production and there are benefits to multiple dosings rather than once a week. I suppose if a person is happy and doing well on weekly injections, then they should stay with it. If you are after a more natural ryhthm, then smaller multiple injections are best. If you do well on gel's, that is optimum. I did not do well on gel's which is why I switched to T Cyp.

    There are a few guys doing daily injections, but with the half life of cypionate, I don't think it's worth taking that much time every day. Propionate would work for daily use due to the shorter ester.

    Ether way, your call. I am just curious.

    As to arimidex, you should dose by symptoms rather than a schedule unless you have determined a pattern already. If you change your injection schedule, you will likely need to change your arimidex schedule as well.
     
  3. CubbieBlue

    CubbieBlue New Member

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    The more often you inject the LESS pulsatile the testosterone becomes.

    If you inject once a week you spike then decline until the next injection.

    If you inject every day then you don't have any more spikes, but you don't have any drops either - you reach a (more or less) steady state.

    So if you are looking for pulsatile - you are actually better off with less frequent injections. I am not advocating for once every two weeks or more...but anecdotally, I have done best with once a week.

    This is coming from a guy who spent more than a year doing EOD injections.
     
  4. BadassBlues

    BadassBlues Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    That is dose dependant, and yes once a week gives a deeper trough but for some, levels fall too far. Personly, I find and E3D schedule to be best. It gives a nice peak and you are injecting again before falling too low. Like I said, this is dose dependant. The ester in cypionate is not conducive to ultra frequent dosing due to the half life.


    It's a shame gel doesnt work on a lot of guys. Using gels, it's easier to mimick the natural circadian cycle.
     
  5. davidrn

    davidrn Member

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    I just wrote about my decrease in a very high Hematocrit of 59.6% down to 47.8% with daily dosing of T Cyp, over 6 weeks. I could go back to M-W-F, but I don't see a reason yet. Will be retesting TT in 2 weeks, will see the effect on T numbers. I only need 6 units/12mg a day to get to 84 mg a week. With a 31 gauge diabetic needle, most morning I can't feel it.
     
  6. drolim

    drolim Member

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    Best decision I made was to inject every day! 0 E2 issues from test! +100iu hcg/day
     
  7. davidrn

    davidrn Member

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    I am still using Arimidex,(less than 1 mg/week) how long did it take for E2 to settle in? and you say you don't need Arimidex any longer? This sounds excellent. Thanks for the comment
     
  8. Bulldog

    Bulldog Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Same here. I spent about a year also and EOD injections with Testosterone Cypionate were horrible for me, and I required 60% more medication.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
     
  9. BadassBlues

    BadassBlues Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Just to clarify, being on this forum for the past four years has taught me one, absolute, emperical certainty...

    There are no absolute emperical certainties when it comes to human beings.

    Bottom line, whatever works for you is the right choice.

    I have stated this recently and I believe it's my new mantra, The more I learn, the less I know
     
  10. CFIDS

    CFIDS Member

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    How much do you inject?

    I went back to Enanathate but I use it interchangeably with Cyp...I have a script for both and use what I have (I prefer Enanathate but sometimes it is hard to get, hence my other script for Cyp).

    I think E5D would be a good experiment??? If so, how could I calculate how much I'd need to inject to maintain the same level as 75mg E3D?
     
  11. pmgamer18

    pmgamer18 Prince of the Forums

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    Well here is my take on this I have been on TRT over 33 yrs now 70 yrs. of age. I have done it all and what works best for me and most men at my forum.

    Is to do Test C shots E3D using a small needle like a 27g 1ml. x 1/2" lg. needle. And to do the shot subQ into your belly fat.

    To get the oil out of the vial put the amout of your shot in air into the vial. Then pull the plunger all the way down and just hold it until you get more then your dose. Push the rest back into the vial. Then do your shot push the oil into your belly fat slow.

    Doing this I am more level and it helps to keep Estradiol E2 more level no big swings up and down in AI meds.

    And to add to this do HCG 250 IU's the day before your Test C shot E3D. This helps to keep your testis working the best they can and helps with your libido.

    For me doing Test C shots everyday or EOD did not work my levels were all over the place up and down and labs showed this.

    As for my AI meds to keep E2 down I take them by how I feel and how good my Rem Sleep Wood is. If I don't feel like I had wood in the morning. I will see if I can get it up fast and normal before getting out of bed. If I can't get it up but it's not hard enough for sex I know I am on the high side.

    I take my AI med. everyday and when I feel it's going high or my wood is weak I will take an extra dose that day.

    If I can't get it up at all and it's like dead I know I am to low and will not take my AI med that day.

    ====================================


    As for symptoms of high E2 Here is a list of some of the symptoms of high E2 (you don't have to experience all of the symptoms to know that you have high E2):
    * Depression
    * Trouble reaching an orgasm
    * No erections while sleeping (i.e. "night wood" or "morning wood")
    * Anxiety
    * Panic Attacks
    * Prostate problems
    * Gynecomastia
    * Water Retention
    * Dizziness/Vertigo
    * Increased Blood Pressure
    * Decreased Libido
    * ED
    * When penis is limp, it doesn't hang low (it seems to try to crawl back up)
    * Asthma like issues (due to increased water retention around the lungs)
    * Trouble sleeping at night - waking up multiple times per night
    * Lack of Libido
    * Crying while watching TV shows/movies
    * Easier to get angry (think PMS)
    * Insulin Resistance (getting tired after eating a meal - if left untreated, it can lead to Type II Diabetes)
    * Larger stomach
    * Redness on the face and/or chest
    * Feeling hotter than everybody else
    * Thinner skin/bleeding easier
    * Headaches/Migraines
     
  12. Bulldog

    Bulldog Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Absolutely. Which is we we all need to be very careful when giving advice to others to try something just because it may have worked for us.

    I came to the realization many many years ago that I don't know squat about anything. No matter how much I learn about something there is always more to learn.
     
  13. Bulldog

    Bulldog Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    A good starting point would be 75mg/3=25mg. 25*5=125mg
     
  14. CFIDS

    CFIDS Member

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    well I guess I was sorta wondering if there were any dynamics with TRT that would allow for less total-T per week to be used if extending the injection interval but I guess it is only when doing MORE FREQUENT injections that would work...I suppose I could start with 100mg and see how I felt/labs
     
  15. Bulldog

    Bulldog Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    There is no hard and fast rule. Everyone will respond differently to different injection intervals as well as subQ vs. IM. You just have to work with your doctor and try it and adjust when necessary. I personally think keeping the total weekly dosage the same is the best starting point.
     
  16. BadassBlues

    BadassBlues Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Testosterone Cypionate has a half life of 8 days. Each individual metabolizes and excretes at different rates. SHBG is also a big factor as well as the rate of aromitization. All of these variables come in to play when you are dialing in your protocol and dose.

    That is why no one can tell you what you should do. All anyone can do is share knowledge and experience. I do very well on an E3D Sub Q protocol @ 35mg per injection. I also do 250mg. of HCG EOD. My labs are consistantly in the upper 80% of T, FT, BIO T and DHT and my E2 stays around 28. Since this works and I am dialed in, I am not going to mess with it.

    What you need to do is to find a protocol that gives you stable levels and STAY WITH IT. It may take some time but playing around and tinkering leads to becoming "that guy" who posts about how miserable he is. Don't be "that guy".
     
  17. Harry Hormones

    Harry Hormones Member

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    That's good to know. Are you taking an AI?
    Over the past month, I've been taking 42.5mg testosterone enanthate every 3.5 days and have felt the best I have in a long time. No HCG right now, but I may experiment with it some time in the future, with a lowered testosterone dose. I've actually been told when I do start HCG to take it on the same day as my testosterone shot, not the day before like pmgamer takes his.
     
  18. BadassBlues

    BadassBlues Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I take anastrazole only when symptoms appear. I have no schedule as I can go for weeks at times with no E2 issues. On occasion, I get some mild high E2 symptoms and take .25mg. Some guys have to take it more regularly, some none at all.

    I do my HCG on an EOD basis, sometimes the schedule coincides with my testosterone injection. As I said, this works for me. Who told you to do HCG on the same day? I niether agree, or disagree with that, but I would like to know their reasoning.
     
  19. xks201

    xks201 Active Member

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    Personally I find 125mg cypionate lasts me about 4 days. I can get about 5-6 days off enanthate with that dose. Enanthate is just so much smoother in my opinion. On cypionate I feel like it is pretending to metabolize like propionate yet it does not give me the amped feeling propionate does. Cypionate also shreds my hairline. And I am not the first person online to claim cypionate has a hair loss effect. No problems on the other 2 esters. If I was using an AI nowadays I'd do 200mg/wk in one shot no problem. I do not use an AI at the moment so instead I do 125mg e4-5 days or so.
     
  20. Harry Hormones

    Harry Hormones Member

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    My current doc told me that it's best to inject both testosterone cypionate/enanthate every 3 days and HCG every 3 days on the same day as the testosterone shot, not the day before. He said that this had to do with the time when both of them reached peak levels. He said that taking HCG the day before or on an eod program would mean that it would peak at the wrong time in relation to the testosterone or something along those lines.
     

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