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How Long to feel AI effect?

Discussion in 'Male Health & HRT' started by tumbleweeds, Mar 17, 2014.

  1. tumbleweeds

    tumbleweeds New Member

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    I'm taking 12.5 mg generic Aromasin every day, for suspected high estrogen. I also take 50 mg pregnenolone a day for anxiety, which helps very much.

    Prior 2 year propecia/proscar user.

    Basically, I have every symptom of low T and high estrogen - brain fog, low confidence, feel like a leaf, impotent, no libido, low energy, poor mood etc.

    I'm self medicating at the moment, as bloodwork is difficult to obtain in Canada. After two incomplete blood panels, GP's will not order another set. Bloodwork confirmed low testosterone.

    Trying to go by how I feel. There is no way I can be low estrogen prior to the Aromasin.
     
  2. xks201

    xks201 Active Member

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    Good luck diagnosing without labs. Most of the veterans including myself have been doing this for years and still cannot diagnose without labs. If there is a private lab option I would pay out of pocket and do that otherwise find a new doctor or elect a better government that doesn't buy into socialized medicine.

    Even my doc here won't run the labs I want so I am forced to run them through a private lab for $.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2014
  3. tumbleweeds

    tumbleweeds New Member

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    Wish I could buy independent lab work. Doesn't exist in Ontario, afiak. All labs have to be requisitioned by a Doctor, who pick and chose what to test for.
     
  4. BadassBlues

    BadassBlues Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    As mentioned above, without labs your shooting in the dark. Taking an AI every day is only for severe cases. You may well have driven your E2 down to far which would cause a lot of those symptoms. As men, we need a certain amount of estrogen in the balance for libido and sexual function, also for bone health and neurotransmitter function as well.

    It takes about two hours to feel the effects of an AI for me. I take a half of an anastrazole about once a week. You can go by symptoms to a certain extent, but only after having had extensive labs over a long period of time to validate your levels. Brain fog, lethargy etc... Are not something that can be diagnosed as estrogen related simply by symptoms. There are far to many other factors that may be involved.

    The best indicator of estrogen levels is your penis. Although if there are other factors affecting it, it won't make any difference so we are back to labs.

    Get an extensive set of labs done, if you need advice as to which ones, please ask and we can help you out.
     
  5. tumbleweeds

    tumbleweeds New Member

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    Sure. Which hormones should I get tested for? Assuming I can get them tested?
    Symptoms experienced for nearly ~7 years straight. Not possible I'm low estrogen. Also ran clomid for ~3 months at various doses, recently. The aromasin caused an uptick in my libido and erections, recently. From about a zero to a three, on a ten point scale. I'm going by my erections and joints. If I get stiff or joint pain or clicking and no libido, I'll know its too low.
     
  6. davidrn

    davidrn Member

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    I have a general question about the usage of AI's. As I understand it, if we have had low Testosterone for some time, we would also have a lesser amount of Androgen receptors? So, when we start on T, it takes some time for the receptors to be "restored"? If we use an AI with T, from the beginning, enough to even have a sub therapeutic E2 level, would that restore the Androgen receptors quicker? I am awaiting Labs taken today, but wondered about the hormonal effects of (Temp) lower E2 . Please excuse me if this is off topic, but I thought it was more generic about AI's and might help fit with this current topic.
     
  7. BJE

    BJE Active Member

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    I've been told by a lab here in the US that "it's your blood, you can do what you want with it so long as you pay yourself".

    As far as the effects of AIs. My main reason for using an AI is that I get nipple pain if I don't. If I go a while without taking any I will start to notice nipple pain. Then intake Arimidex. However once E2 is high it takes a while to get low enough to not have symptoms. Sometimes I get impatient and take more Arimidex. By the time my nipple pain has subsided I've driven my level too low and start to get muscle and joint pain. Therefore I try to take just enough Arimidex to not get nipple pain and not take too much. So to sum it up. If I have symptoms of high E2 it takes a day or two for symptoms to go away after taking Arimidex. I've gotten it too low a few times and have felt awful for a week or two before it climbs back up. In these cases I have increased my testosterone dose briefly in order to raise E2 to the point I feel well.

    My doctor doesn't like to do e2 tests, but I think my symptoms are profound enough to know if I'm at a good level or not.
     
  8. 00slotiv

    00slotiv Active Member

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    I agree with a lot of this. Initially I was prescribed 1.0 mg of Armidex a day for 14 days then 1.0 mg three times a week. Naturally, my E2 was undetectable. Great erection quality but climaxing almost impossible. This is what happened to me. But labs are a must. Can't say that enough. When in doubt, test it out!

    Bob
     
  9. pmgamer18

    pmgamer18 Prince of the Forums

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    A lot of men can't get there Dr. to test or Treat high Estradiol levels and need to fix this them selfs. Just being on TRT and having good Total T levels with high E2 there Free T can be very low. High Estradiol can make SHBG go high and this binds up the Testosterone in your body so it's not working. You have good labs but feel like crap.

    I have found a way to tell when levels are to high or going to low by how I feel and how my Rem Sleep Wood is working. One thing I did if I don't feel I has RSW is I will check my penis before I get out of bed to see if I can get it up fast and it's good and hard for sex.

    If I can get it up but it's not good enough to have sex this tells me my Estradiol E2 levels are to high and I will take an extra dose of Aromasin.

    Being to low is easy you can't get it up at all it will not even get a little bigger like it's dead and some men when to low will have flashing it's not like the hot and sweating feeling you get from being to high. I just comes on you in waves then goes away.

    Here is one more thing men need to know about taking pain meds and E2 meds pain meds can make E2 med less powerful and you need more. I had this problem and was needing 4 to 5 pills of Arimidex / day. When this was going on I did not know it was from the pain meds and I switched to Aromasin best thing I did this works very fast and if you go to low has a short half life to you come back up faster if you were not to low for to long.

    Here is a list of how you feel when E2 is to high.
    ============================================================

    As for symptoms of high E2 Here is a list of some of the symptoms of high E2 (you don't have to experience all of the symptoms to know that you have high E2):
    * Depression
    * Trouble reaching an orgasm
    * No erections while sleeping (i.e. "night wood" or "morning wood")
    * Anxiety
    * Panic Attacks
    * Prostate problems
    * Gynecomastia
    * Water Retention
    * Dizziness/Vertigo
    * Increased Blood Pressure
    * Decreased Libido
    * ED
    * When penis is limp, it doesn't hang low (it seems to try to crawl back up)
    * Asthma like issues (due to increased water retention around the lungs)
    * Trouble sleeping at night - waking up multiple times per night
    * Lack of Libido
    * Crying while watching TV shows/movies
    * Easier to get angry (think PMS)
    * Insulin Resistance (getting tired after eating a meal - if left untreated, it can lead to Type II Diabetes)
    * Larger stomach
    * Redness on the face and/or chest
    * Feeling hotter than everybody else
    * Thinner skin/bleeding easier
    * Headaches/Migraines
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Here is a copy of how not to go to low.
    ======================================================
    How To Take Arimdex or Aromasin and not go down on your Estradiol to Low.

    What I found is if you go to low taking arimidex, it's the length of time your to low, if your too low say for 8 weeks it can take your body a longer time to make more Estradiol. Bottom line is to know how not to go to low. Keep a log on your dose and how you feel men going to low can't get it up taking Viagra. I went to low when I first tried Arimidex and did not know about going to low or how one feels to low, so I was low a good 8 weeks. I did not know I was low until my next labs.

    The best gage I have found to control your Estradiol levels is to gage your night time and morning wood. At good levels or what I call the sweet spot you get your night time and morning wood back so strong it will wake you up and you can hang a coat on it.

    Most men do good taking .25 mgs or 1/4 of a 1mg. pill, I use a pill cutter to cut the small pill in half then I stand it on the cut end and use a single edge razor to cut this in half. A good way to take arimidex is by how high your levels are. I tested over 90 pg/ml so we tried doing .5 mgs every other day after 8 weeks my next set of labs showed it did not move below 90, test said >90. So we did .5 mgs. every day in about 2 weeks I got some strong night time and morning wood back after not having them for many yrs.

    I kept doing this dose and in 8 weeks my next set of labs said <20 back in the day labs were like this they did not have to good labs we have today they could not read lower the 20. My Dr. told me this looks to low to stop taking the Arimidex. The one thing I noticed was my wood stopped and stopping the Arimidex my wood came back in about 7 weeks my next test at 8 weeks was 24 pg/ml. So we went back on the Arimidex but the Dr. told me to take .5 mgs every 3 days I was on this dose not a week and lost wood. This is when I figured out going to low you lose wood. And the longer your too low the longer it takes to get levels back up.

    I stopped the arimidex right away and got my wood back in 4 days. I then after playing with the dose for a time found the best dose is .25mgs every 2 to 3 days.

    So lets say your labs are less the 50 pg/ml if your take .5 mgs you can go down so dam fast your miss the sweet spot of your wood and go to low. It's best with lower levels 50 and under to do less Arimidex .25mgs every 2 days if later your lose wood when it comes back go to every 3 days.

    I have found estradiol is the hardest hormone to control, it goes up or down from month to month some times I need .25mgs every 2 days other times I need .25mgs everyday most of the time I do well on every 3 days.

    So between wood and labs I do great and so do most of the men I have told this to. I keep a log on how much I am taking and how I feel. Doing this and reading back in my log I was able to tell when I was going to high or to low my Dr. lets me dose my arimidex by how I feel.

    Over the yrs. I have posted this story until I am blue in the face.
    And this has worked for a lot of men that I have told about this over the yrs.
     
  10. tumbleweeds

    tumbleweeds New Member

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    I get nipple sensitivity/itchiness, too. They get bigger and softer, like a womans. Also, they get hard lol

    I'm yo-yoing at the moment, trying to find the right Aromasin dose for me. It definitely kicked in; four times in one day. Yay! :D . Had some great nocturnal and morning wood, and a great sleep a few nights ago. Think I went to low recently, as I've had some joint soreness in the hip and knee. So laying off until the pain goes away.

    Phil is coaching me so i've got some good support :)

    Note: unfortunately, Canadian socialized healthcare is heavily regulated, in many respects. One being a person can't order their own bloodwork. All has to be requisitioned by a MD. And none of them want to order complete labs. It's a joke.
     
  11. tumbleweeds

    tumbleweeds New Member

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    Thanks for all the help Phil. Much appreciated :) Hopefully the wood comes back lol
     
  12. BJE

    BJE Active Member

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    Interestingly I have not found either of these to be the case for me. Regardless of other high or low E2 symptoms I do not have erection problems. I have had good erections ever since I started TRT. Night and morning erections are just always there. If I happen to wake up without an erection it usually pops up very soon after waking. I often walk around erect for several minutes after getting out of bed. I often become erect while laying down resting, and if I fall asleep watching TV I frequently wake up erect.

    Either I am managing to keep my E2 in a good spot despite some other E2 symptoms I get, or E2 just doesn't have that much of effect on my penis.

    I have also never noticed any hot flashes, night sweats or that sort of thing.
     
  13. tumbleweeds

    tumbleweeds New Member

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    Did the size of the testicles shrink much with TRT? Did the AI help prevent shrinkage?
     
  14. BJE

    BJE Active Member

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    Mine didn't shrink a lot, but they got somewhat smaller, and much softer and lighter. They stayed pulled up next to my body and didn't hang. When I was warm my scrotum would hang empty. I don't think AIs do anything to prevent shrinkage. HCG keeps them large and firm though.
     
  15. tumbleweeds

    tumbleweeds New Member

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    Interesting. Thanks. They should, and often do with steroid guys who can't restart (super high estrogen from super high levels of testosterone) = suppresses HPTA = raisin nuts.
     
  16. 52188

    52188 Member

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    I wouldn't touch an AI unless you have high estrogen confirmed by estradiol sensitive testing (not the regular estradiol test). Chronically Low e2 is the worst thing I have ever experienced in my life and there isn't a close second. The symptoms you have can also be low e2 symptoms. Low e2 can make cells deaf to testosterone, I have experienced this.
     
  17. Sargovar

    Sargovar New Member

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    Yeah, low E2 is definitely worse than high E2 imo in terms of symptoms, though high E2 isn't exactly pleasant, either. Thankfully I've never experienced chronic low E2 but the occasional AI overdose has given me a taste of what it's like.
     
  18. 52188

    52188 Member

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    Another thing is that aromasin is a suicide inhibitor of the aromatase enzyme which means that it takes the body longer to produce aromatase after stopping the drug than it would had you taken anastrozole. This means if you go low on e2 you will suffer longer. Do not medicate blind, get it confirmed, you will do more harm than help.
     
  19. tumbleweeds

    tumbleweeds New Member

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    Thanks for your concern. How did you feel with low E2?

    I'm fine. I ran clomid for three months, recently. Haven't had libido/erections > 7 years. There's no way I'm low E2. Further, after trialing Aromasin, my libido, boners and nocturnal wood came back. Including good, deep sleeps. That means I was high.

    I'm going by symptoms. If I was too low, driving E2 down lower wouldn't result in boners/libido/night wood/deep sleep etc.

    Anyhow, I did drive E2 down too low, as lost libido, wood, and experienced joint soreness. So laying off until wood returns. Or I feel better, then trial, slower, again.

    As I have said many times in this thread, Doctors in Canada are loathe to order any kind of bloodwork. Good luck getting sensitive E2 tests. They won't even test for estrogen. Different world up here.
     
  20. 52188

    52188 Member

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    With low e2 I felt anywhere from feeling hypogonadal (when e2 was just somewhat low) and feeling suicidal at my worst (when e2 was super low to nonexistent). My brain would not function, memory loss, vision problems, no penis sensitivity, no ability to get an erection, massive water retention in my face, unbelievable fatigue to the point where I would sleep 14-16 hours per day and still feel tired, the symptoms were hell. Pure misery 24/7 with no ability to feel happiness. My cells were completely deaf to testosterone.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2014
    anton3196 likes this.

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