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How potent is nettle root at lowering SHBG?

Discussion in 'Male Health & HRT' started by <dehook>, Nov 21, 2010.

  1. <dehook>

    <dehook> New Member

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    Does anyone here have any experience with using nettle root to lower shbg (and then subsequently boosting testosterone) and have the labs to see how potent it was? There doesn't seem to be many alternatives to lowering SHBG other than nettle root and the danazol, which isn't the safest option.
     
  2. chilln

    chilln Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    * The most common reason why either E2 is high, or SHBG is high, or both E2 and SHBG are both too high, before commencing any hormone modulation therapy, is because there isn't enough cortisol floating around to downregulate T metabolism adequately (usually because of age-related-hormonal-decline of our cortisol production line), so the body has to take evasive action to reduce T metabolism. It does this either by:
    a) converting some of the available T into E2, because E2 downregulates T metabolism very strongly
    or:
    b) upregulating SHBG, because SHBG binds to T and effectively takes it out-of-service.

    * When our body cranks E2 to downregulate T metabolism, the high E2 wreaks havoc with our neurotransmitter balance, in ways which ruin our erection performance. Our body produces optimum neurotransmitter balance when it synthesizes optimum amounts of cortisol via pregnenolone. HC supplementation does not restore our neurotransmitters.

    * Increasing cortisol downregulates our T metabolism, which reverses any previous E2 and / or SHBG excesses which our body implemented due to too low cortisol.

    *** While you probably think that you don't want your testosterone metabolism downregulated at all, if you don't use cortisol to do it, then your body will either:
    a) synthesize E2 out of your T and then your body will use the E2 to downregulate your testosterone metabolism.
    or:
    b) crank your SHBG to downregulate your testosterone metabolism.

    *** You cannot run away from downregulating your T. It must be done. And you must use cortisol to do it not E2 and not SHBG. Hence you may need your cortisol boosted to achieve this.

    *** Males who think that they can "beat the system" by operating at low cortisol and taking arimidex to suppress E2, or taking nettle root extract to suppress SHBG, are doing this based on insufficient knowledge of hormones, because too low cortisol means too low pregnenolone, which means too low neurotransmitters. Having too low neurotransmitters means the brain cannot coordinate the larger volume of messages resulting from increased overall metabolism, which includes the increased volume of repair messages triggered by higher T metabolism.

    .
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2010
  3. <dehook>

    <dehook> New Member

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    Thought I'd re-open this thread since it warrants discussion. I think Chilln's theory holds true for most cases, but I know HANS has run into cases where all the pathways are tuned up (including cortisol) and yet SHBG does not budge.

    So again, has anyone taken nettle root and run labs to see how potent it is at lowering SHBG?
     
  4. Wise Guy

    Wise Guy Talking Monkey Staff Member Super Moderator

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    And that is exactly how young males can have high androgen levels and maintain normal estrogen levels, yet when aged males who are deficient in androgens across the board (especially PREG) boost T to youthful levels, they often have a larger than youthful response of Androgen --> Estrogen conversion.

    Thus, when aged males isolate and boost one androgen such as T, without backfilling pathways (PREG and DHEA specifically) they will often end up with higher than desired estrogen load.

    This metabolic rate stuff is brilliant
     
  5. hardasnails1973

    hardasnails1973 Banned

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    Heard different responses from different people.
    did 2000 mgs a day of now brand for 3 months and then retested nothing.
     
  6. Kennybeats

    Kennybeats New Member

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    Took it to lower my SHBGs, must have either raised them or E2 because my gyno flared up like crazy and it was literally all I could think about for a few days. Just a heads up
     
  7. hardasnails1973

    hardasnails1973 Banned

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    lower shbg cause e2 to be more bioactive in the system same as testosterone.
     
  8. chilln

    chilln Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    There is only one reason for too high SHBG, and that's because your testosterone metabolism is too high relative to your other hormone levels. The likelihood your too high SHBG is a genetic anomaly is extremely remote.

    ie: if as a young adult your sexual performance was optimum, then you do not have a too high SHBG genetic anomaly.

    ###

    HAN advises doctors re how to implement the 2nd Generation Male Treatment Plan. Ie: HAN does not advise doctors re how to implement the 3rd Generation Male Treatment Plan.

    Both male treatment plans can be used successfully to treat males, but the 2nd Generatrion Male Treatment Plan is so complex that it has to be directed by a very experienced medical professional adviser. Medical professional advisers who do not have the minimum amount of experience in implementing this plan rarely optimize their patients.

    I am not aware of any of our forum members who have successfully "guided" their own doctor while undertaking the 2nd Genertion Male Treatment Plan. Good luck with that one.


    2nd Generation Male Treatment Plan

    Treat multiple hormone imbalances with exogenous T and HCG, plus one or more of the following:
    ...a little preg to boost preg,
    ...a little thyroid hormones to boost thyroid hormones,
    ...a little DHEA to boost DHEA,
    ...a little of HC or prednisone or prednisolone or medrol to boost cortisol,
    ...a little florinef to boost aldosterone,
    ...a little arimidex to suppress excess E2,
    ...a little avodart to suppress excess DHT,
    ...a little danazol or nettle root extract to suppress excess SHBG,
    ...a little dostinex to suppress excess prolactin.

    .
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2011
  9. hardasnails1973

    hardasnails1973 Banned

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    Be glad to reference studies saying there are multiple reason why shbg is high. To think there is just one is ludicrous
    There are exceptions to every rule.

    I suggest to dr's to look at entire picture not just one aspect.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2011
  10. whitegato777

    whitegato777 Member

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    What chillin brought up was interesting. im curious how does cortisol effect testosterone? also i thought high shbg can be from hyperthyroid?
     
  11. chilln

    chilln Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Very few of them (if any) understand that resting metabolic rate drives our hormone levels. Until they respect that fundamental biological phenomenon, those reports will contninue to report than anything and everything can raise SHBG is some or other circumstance.

    The one consistent and always reliable concept is that increasing resting metabolic rate (eg: by boosting levels of thyroid hormones in conjunction with boosting levels of preg and / or prog) allows testosterone metabolism to incease without any evasive actions (such as increasing SHBG, or increasing E2) being taken.

    Yes there are genetic freaks, but they are rare, ie: they are freaks, and I'm not interested in writing exceptions for genetic freaks.

    .
     
  12. era

    era New Member

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    I'm wondering if chilln or someone else here can tell me what the
    phrase "a little nettle root" means.

    My situation: I'm 65. Long history of celiac disease, not off gluten
    until age 57. Celiac triggered hashi's/hypothyroidism and long-term
    hypothyroidism toasted my adrenals: insufficiency, circadian rhythm
    dysfunction. Am also considered hypogonad cuz my last T test showed
    free T below bottom of range:

    TT 404 ng/dl (240-950)
    FT 7.7 ng/dl (9-30)
    E2 30.5 (5.4-65.9)

    Unfortunately we did not take SHBG this time, but in 2010, it was above
    the top of normal range. I suspect SHBG is now high in the normal range;
    I suspect this because E2 has improved, from 57 in Mar 2010, to 30.5 now.

    On a large number of supplements, plus these hormones daily:

    preglenolone MLM 50mg
    hydrocortisone(Cortef) 5mg
    DHEA(sublingual) 32.5mg (half-life measured at 43 hours)
    T3(Cytomel) 7.5mcg+5mcg+5mcg
    T4(Levoxyl) 75mcg

    After measuring my E2 at 30.5, I have gone onto a small dose of
    Arimidex: 0.25mg every 4-5 days. Hope to see E2=~15.

    Adrenals are slowly improving, but not there yet. I have been able to taper
    HC over the past year, from 35mg down to 5mg. A hormone doctor told me in
    Jan 2011 that it would take 2 years to get normal cortisol function back.
    So the question is, what else can I do in the meantime to push FT up a little?

    What do you all think is an appropriate "little" dosage of nettle root?
     
  13. theturducken

    theturducken Member

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    Are you on TRT? This was the only thing that lowered my SHBG, and with your TT that low, you need to be on TRT, anything else and you're wasting your time.
     
  14. JanSz

    JanSz Active Member

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  15. JanSz

    JanSz Active Member

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  16. fd2blk

    fd2blk New Member

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    I have a situation that I can not find out a whole lot of information on. I have high SHBG but normal TT and FT. When I use the on line FT calculator apps they always show I should have lower FT with my SHBG and TT numbers. The numbers below are not on TRT and I have thought about nettle root to lower SHBGl but it is almost like my SHBG is not binding to anything so could a cortisol problem cause anything like this.

    TT 622ng/dL
    SHBG 65.8pg/mL (Ref 6.8-21.5 pg/mL)
    LH 9.7 mIU/mL
    FSH 11.7 mIU/mL
    Estradiol 22.4 pg/mL
    Albiumin 4.5 g/dl
     
  17. cisono

    cisono Guest

    [I am a newbie, so please be kind.]

    Great post...
    How would you increase cortisol specifically in this case?
    Would DHEA also help?

    Thanks.
     
  18. Youthful55Guy

    Youthful55Guy New Member

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    Great thread. I'm wanting to come up to speed on this to, so I thought I'd add my two cents to bump it up so it doesn't get lost. I'd be interested in hearing some success cases and what protocols they followed.

    In answer to your DHEA question, I think that it would not have much impact on SHBG because it does not feed into the cortisol pathways (assuming Chillin is right). If you go too high on DHEA, it is even possible to that the excess will bump up your E and we know that's bad for SHBG. Pregnenolone and progesterone are the pro-hormones that feed directly into the cortisol pathways.

    In my case, Nettle Root has done nothing. I went as high as 2000 mg per day and SHBG stayed high (actually went up slightly). E also went up but I think that had more to do with my increasing Saw Palmetto.

    I'd be interested too if hearing of anyone that has used topical OTC hydrocortisone to bump up cortisol.
     
  19. MAF14

    MAF14 New Member

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    Apologies for going off topic...

    So for those on HC, eventually hoping to come off, should preg still be taken with HC for sufficient neurotransmitters?
     
  20. alex

    alex New Member

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    The assumption that preg optimizes neuros is just that. An assumption
     

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