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How to Figure Out Your TRT Regimen

Discussion in 'Random Thoughts from Dr. John' started by Dr. John Crisler, Dec 19, 2014.

  1. Dr. John Crisler

    Dr. John Crisler Lord of the Forum Staff Member Super Moderator

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    The point I am trying to make is, for these purposes, all we need is a general slope of serum T levels. It will rise from shot day, to a peak 48-72 hours after, then begin to drop. The only actual level you will know is whichever day(s) of the week you may have labs drawn.

    This is not for the purpose of attempting to precisely predict any level on a particular day. it is, instead, just to GENERALLY allow you to see your week at a glance. Just doing that much can add a lot of insight into your hormonal landscape. especially when you compare how you feel across the week.

    Disconnect from subserviance to serum levels (we are talking about true TRT, which is based upon normal range, of course). Think instead in terms of "at this dosing, on these days, this is how I feel".
     
  2. Desert Eagle

    Desert Eagle Banned

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    It would not be the first time I misused terminology. Simply put: I inject 80 mg of testosterone cypionate a week. Managing E2 has been a problem for me. It appears that I am also hypersensitive to arimidex/anastrozole. My E2 will range into the 40's and with a .05 mg, the smallest dose my compounding pharmacy can make, It will drop me into the low teens and sometimes single digits with two doses of .05mg.

    I have a theory for why this is occurring that I shared with Bulldog that in part proved itself out with me personally. Low DHEA, boosted, (a bit too much too fast) and with it the E2 seemed more resistant to the micro-doses of anastrozole. While this may cite as being a minus it is actually a plus, whereby the anastrozole has something to push against. I bounced hard on the 50mg TD DHEA at day 9 and had to discontinue, but I think I had enough tests to at least go down this path in the future to test my hypothesis.

    With all that, I try t manage the E2 better by splitting my weekly dose of T cyp in two (40 mg monday morning and 40 mg thursday afternoon). I call the trough
    thursday morning/early afternoon before injection. I usually maintain a 550-600 ng trough of total testosterone. However there is still a peak and trough. The body is responding to injection instances.

    I have
    another theory that since I am growth hormone deficient and since my pituitary is questionable, that stopping TRT with T cyp, which stifles the LH and FSH also has an impact on my pituitary in general since I have been diagnosed as secondary hypogonadal. There has been some good test results, or at least claims, that certain gonadotrophic herbs will boost your natural level of total T by as much as a factor of 2X or double.

    Using the herbs instead of injections has many potential benefits that need to be proven out. Amino complex that comes with it, more semen output, etc. By supplementing with these specific herbs the peak trough is eliminated or at minimum drastically reduced. There is no the level of proof I need.

    However, my level of
    ultimate proof is how do I respond and sustain in response to anything and can it be reproduced. This move is in response to a diabolical medical system that tests but refuses to treat or engage anything in resemblance to an oath and also in anticipation to a government who will in time jeopardize all of use with supply restrictions, etc. Plus I can cultivate and sustain my own gonad herbs.

    Thus the reference to "Square Wave" was to identify the elimination of a peak/trough via herbs instead of injections, where total T levels are sustained at a hopeful 600ng+ target range. I would
    appreciate the share if there is a more appropriate term that can be applied. My read of wiki seems to support its use, ref: https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1ASUT_enUS621US621&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#safe=off&q=square wave


     
  3. Desert Eagle

    Desert Eagle Banned

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    Excellent share Dr. Crisler. It makes much sense and seems readily applicable. Thank you for taking the time to share.
     
  4. Personal Best

    Personal Best New Member

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    Desert Eagle

    You mentioned herbs. I used to use tribulus before workouts and the next day for recovery, which worked pretty well but noticed about 10 years ago that I had to take more and more to get the same benefit. Finally I stopped, thinking some feedback mechanism had done something. After a year or so I took my usual before workout dose and it worked okay but the the next morning the recovery dose barely did anything. I tried to take some a week later before a workout and it didn't work. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that if you're secondary something like tribulus may not be the way to go.

    As far as square wave goes, if you t levels actually graph following the lines shown in the wiki reference you provided then sure square wave it is, although I would be surprised that the human body could respond like that, i.e. straight up, perfectly flat then straight down. I'm sure it's more like the slope Dr. C referred to earlier. In fact, I've seen graphs for gh release at night and noticed that if you average the data points you have an impulse function and definitely not a square wave. For those interested, it looks closest to an impulse function for a second order bandpass system - the sum of two exponentials with the variables adjusted accordingly. I'm guessing that a single isolated t injection would produce a similar result. It might also be revealing to see a plot of t over time with a plot for gh release over time i.e. on the same x-y plane / graph.

    Anyway, whatever you t levels are, Excel will give you a nice generalized plot.
     
  5. Desert Eagle

    Desert Eagle Banned

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    Tribulus is not the gonadotrophic go to herb. Trib can be use to increase blood flow to the groin and give a quick bump in the moment. Pine pollen, cistanche and nettle root do not work in the same manner. I OD on trib, another ER dash taching like mad. Semen output was 2X and refraction time for the 2nd nut nil, it cant be sustained. The other can, if my readings hold true, which means little until it enters my body and a cause and effect takes place.
     
  6. torrential

    torrential Member

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    Hi Dr. John

    I'd like to sketch this out for HCG Monotherapy. The conventional wisdom on post injection HCG response seems to be:
    • @12 hours, first T peak
    • @24 hours, T decreases to elevated plateau
    • @48-72 hours, second T peak
    Based on your experience, is this timing reasonable and does the second peak tend to be greater, the same, or less than the first peak.
    Any other thoughts or guidance for tracking this HRT regimen would be appreciated.
     
  7. Dr. John Crisler

    Dr. John Crisler Lord of the Forum Staff Member Super Moderator

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    That is a common misconception.

    That graph is the result of what happens when you take too much HCG (check out the dosing in that study), not when appropriate dosing is applied. It is proof of downregulation.

    Consider what happens normally in the body, under endogenous LH production.
     
  8. Dr. John Crisler

    Dr. John Crisler Lord of the Forum Staff Member Super Moderator

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    For the line on your graph, instead of imagining what the serum androgen level might be, instead how about graphing how you feel that day?
     

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