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my hrt journey

Discussion in 'Member Journals' started by jipangu, Feb 6, 2015.

  1. jipangu

    jipangu Member

    Oct 16, 2012
    Likes Received:
    hello everybody,

    i create this thread about me,in order to show my Hormones replacement therapy,any thoughts and advices are welcome.

    i apologize for my bad english

    So last week, i have had a blood analysis and according to the results, me and my endo, decided to re enter TRT for the moment, despite the fact i worry about fertility.

    here 's the results without TRT im 31 yo

    LH 5.2 1.7-8.6
    FSH 3.3 1.5-12.4
    Bio available T 0.63 ng/ml 1.38-4.30
    SHBG 41.59nmol/l 14.5-48.4
    17beta estradiol (not sensitive) 31pg/ml 28-70.4
    prolactin 0.9ng/ml 4.0-15.2

    hematocrit 41.7%
    HDL CHOL 0.68g/l 0.35-0.85
    LDL CHOL 1.75g/l
    LDL/HDL 2.56 <4.00
    TRIGLYCERIDE 0.60g/l 0.39-1.58
    fasting glucose 1.01g/l 0.74-1.09

    after these results endo put me now on androgel 2 sachets /day (10mg) ,morning and evening,along with HCG.
    i think i will opt for the dr John 's method : 100 iu of HCG /day and i will see how i feel.

    currently i take also DHEA MLM 25, PREG MLM 50 , T4 50µg.

    My endo refused to me to put me on FSH, along with HCG, so i worry a little about fertility.

    My initial intention was to avoid TRT by taking HGH, but i couldn't ,due to various reasons (price,availability),
    maybe i will coming back one day to low dose HGH when opportunity will appears.

    just one week after the start of androgel, i feel a difference already.
    i am currently waiting for bacteriostatic water and empty vials for dissolving HCG.

    any comment is welcome,
    thanks to you all.
  2. JanSz

    JanSz Well-Known Member

    Dec 8, 2007
    Likes Received:
    Specially when you worry about fertility you should have waited with starting Androgel until you are ready with HCG. Then start with HCG.
    You said:
    androgel 2 sachets /day (10mg) ,morning and evening,along with HCG.

    Please clarify about Androgel:
    and correct me if I am wrong
    I think you are taking Androgel 1% in 5grams sachets, each sachet have 50mg testosterone.
    You are taking one sachet in the morning the other in the evening.
    So you are taking 100mg testosterone daily.

    In 2003-2007 I was using Androgel 1%, two 5gram sachets/day
    That was giving me
    DHT-very high 200's, close to 300ng/dL

    DHT is a rocket fuel, much stronger than testosterone.
    Over the years I am somewhat less afraid of high DHT and like it over the top range, but have newer heard of discussions on how it affects fertility.

    I think the opinion of testosterone is changing as far as fertility.
    Fertility protocols were recommending removal of any supplemental testosterone and stimulation first with clomid then with HCG(simulates LH) and eventually HMG(simulates FSH). Now it looks that using testosterone does not hurt production of good sperm.
    But IIRC it was in the context of using injected testosterone that does not affects DHT levels as strong as Androgel does.

    Testosterone levels inside (normally acting) testicles are much higher than in the blood.
    Just guessing, adding supplemental testosterone may actually improve fertility protocol.
    Hopefully additional DHT will do the same.

    I think all above may call for higher HCG (daily) doses.
    Possibly 2x/day at the same time you apply Androgel.
    The dose on table below is for EOD dosing.
    So using 100iu/2xday would be about what I would think about.
    250iu/2xday may also be considered. (that is 2x250x7=3500iu/week)
    Also remember that fertility protocols use 6000iu/week


  3. jipangu

    jipangu Member

    Oct 16, 2012
    Likes Received:
    first at all, thanks you for your answer

    you are right, this is 100mg of testosterone a day, i have said 10 mg, because of the probable "real" amount of testosterone entering into my bloodstream.

    you have an interesting insight about hcg 2 times a day.

    i am a little disapointed the doctor refused to me FSH. i have to deal with it.

    what do you think about my very low prolactin? (0.9 ) dopamine should be skyrocketting but i didn't feel very horny despite this level.

    Do you think my high SHBG will reduce on androgel?

    you are not afraid now by DHT. i am just afraid about hair shedding and baldness.
    i guess a bald man have less success with girls than a full of hair headed guy.

    but i think it is better feeling good on high DHT than doing bad on low T ,low DHT,.
    i don't want to take 5ar inhibitors. dr Kruse said it is a nuclear bomb on androgen pathways.
    you said dr jonathan wright advice olive oil and coconut oil to help overcoming problems with 5ar inhibitors.

    Maybe should i consider one day a hair transplant, without discontinuing TRT.
  4. JanSz

    JanSz Well-Known Member

    Dec 8, 2007
    Likes Received:
    OK, so I guess that fertility project is a thing for the future.

    Then there is no need to push HCG too much, just enough to keep powder dry.
    In that case the originally planned 100 iu of HCG /day should be sufficient.

    You may also want to discuss with your doctor the type of Androgel that you could use.
    Say, instead of current 100mg/day=2 five gram sachets of Androgel 1%
    consider Androgel 1.62%
    4 pumps/day=81mg/day

    That should reduce (possibly excessive) DHT that you could get from Androgel 1%
    Androgel 1% is sold also in pumps, 1pump=12.5mg

    Androgel 1.62 pump, 1pump=20.25mg

  5. jipangu

    jipangu Member

    Oct 16, 2012
    Likes Received:

    just a little update

    after 2 weeks of androgel, 2 sachets/day, i have done a quick and simple blood test that i have paid by myself.
    so i have tested only bio T and estradiol.

    prior to androgel bio T was 0.63 , e2 was 31pg

    2 weeks later:

    bio T 3.18ng/ml 0.63----->3.18 i think it's great
    62pg/ml 31-------->62 i think this is not good

    i feel , high estrogens symptoms. the more obvious symptoms is a difficulty to reach orgasm .

    i have arimidex , i would like to start it at low dose,0.25mg, 2 times a week .
    and see ,if it can help with my high estrogens symptoms.

    any thoughts ?

    thanks you

  6. JanSz

    JanSz Well-Known Member

    Dec 8, 2007
    Likes Received:
    It would help if you posted lab ranges
    What Androgel are you using, 1% or 1.62%
    It would help if you add DHT to the tests
    Remember to eat cruciferous vegetables and Calcium-D-Glutarate.
    I would use vegetables before Arimidex.
    Use Arimidex if it is helping you, but the long term goal is to be without Arimidex.
    There is a chance that you are using too much Androgel.
    In my case I am good when TT>=500ng/dL, DHT>=100ng/dL
    With Androgel 1% it is easy to have overly high DHT, I think about 150 would be to high.
    Get five or ten 10cc syringes without needle (preferably with the cap.
    You can suck out portion of gel for use latter.
    I was able to divide 5gram gel into 4 portions.
    Split your daily Androgel dose into two.
    Morning/before bed. That is not only more natural but may help with high E2.
    Make approximate split, you are ok as long as your total daily dose is what you want.

  7. jipangu

    jipangu Member

    Oct 16, 2012
    Likes Received:

    thanks you for helping me,i appreciate a lot.

    i am using androgel 1%. divided in two daily doses. morning /evening.50mg/50mg.
    i have paid by myself this simple blood analysis because i don't have any apointment with my doctor before march or april and i feel that something is not good. i have guessed that it was e2.

    before androgel1%

    Bio T 0.63 ng/ml (1.38-4.30)
    e2 31pg/ml (11-44) ( i have made a mistake about the e2 range in my first post)

    15 days later

    bio T 3.18ng/ml (1.38-4.30)
    e2 62pg/ml (11-44)

    e2 jumped from 31 to 62. i think here is the main problem of my situation.high e2.

    to note: now, i use low dose HCG 100iu/day along with androgel for the 3 Cholesterol pathways, and fertility concerns.

    For DHT analysis i will wait my doctor appointment since it is a very expensive test, i think. but probably i have high dht on 100mg androgel 1%.

    so currently,with this protocol, i have high T,probably high DHT,high e2,very low prolactin,good thyroid panel.

    despite these good levels on a piece of a paper,

    This is a little strange situation. i feel an improved sense of well being on TRT,T4,DHEA. but i don't have a developed libido.i can lose easily an erection during intercourse.or to do without sex.

    i will try to eat cruciferous vegetables with calcium D glutarate and maybe take low dose arimidex. 0.5/week for instance.
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2015
  8. JanSz

    JanSz Well-Known Member

    Dec 8, 2007
    Likes Received:
    You are taking 7*100=700iu/week HCG
    This may be the reason for your high E2.
    This may be the reason for loosing erection during intercourse.
    Lets hope that Arimidex is helpful.
    If you want fertility now, stay with current HCG.
    Remember that actually FSH is responsible for sperm production, so you may need HCG + HMG if the waiting for her to get pregnant takes too long.

    After you are done with fertility project, or if fertility project is far into future,
    you may want to reduce HCG to lower level, such that just maintain size of your scrotum and testicles.
    That would be somewhere around 500iu/week or less.
    That would reduce your E2 production and need for arimidex.

    review this, may help:

    I have used Androgel 1% (2003-2007) and now am using Androgel 1.62%
    Must say that I like 1.62% better.
    It still makes DHT but not as much as the 1% did.

    Consider doing DHT testing while on 1% gel
    eventually consider to changing to 1.62%

    Androgel1% - 1pump=12.5 mg, 8pumps=10gram of gel=100mg testosterone
    but that was producing huge amounts of DHT

    Consider using 1.62%
    1.62%- 1 pump=20.25mg , 4 pumps=81mg, 5pumps=101.25mg

    and adjust dose by watching DHT level, try to get it within (100-120),
    if you have to, save $ by skipping tests for TT and FreeT

    I am in the process of figuring what works for me,
    and am guessing that it may be either 3pumps/day or
    one day two the next day three pumps alternatively.

    Depending who pays for Androgel, that may become important.


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