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Official Finasteride Thread

Discussion in 'Post-Finasteride Syndrome & Accutane Sufferers' started by Dr. John Crisler, Jun 23, 2009.

  1. Dr. John Crisler

    Dr. John Crisler Lord of the Forum Staff Member Super Moderator

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    YouTube - Dr. John Crisler - PERMANENT FINASTERIDE, PROPECIA, PROSCAR SIDE EFFECTS
    [video=youtube;BEGCTMtlgoc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEGCTMtlgoc[/video]


    YouTube - Propecia, Proscar, Finasteride -- PERMANENT SEXUAL SIDE EFFECTS
    [video=youtube;2nXWVTStnHs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nXWVTStnHs&NR=1[/video]

    YouTube - Propecia is Crap
    [video=youtube;K0g9V1kSzfw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0g9V1kSzfw&NR=1[/video]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 15, 2011
  2. Wise Guy

    Wise Guy Talking Monkey Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Good stuff thanks!
     
  3. Jaydee

    Jaydee Member

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    Take note of this one boys, Finasteride is seriously not worth it. There are other alternatives to hair loss and lowering DHT that are SAFE.

    Listen to Dr Crisler, he knows what he's talking about!:thumbup1:
     
  4. Wise Guy

    Wise Guy Talking Monkey Staff Member Super Moderator

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    When mine goes, I'm just shavin it!

    But yea, if I didn't look so dam handsome with a shaved head, I'm sure I would invest in Dr J's topical.

    Many people are talking about similar topicals/ingredients to it and liking it, so that tells me that it works.
     
  5. rick055

    rick055 Active Member

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    I look like a moron with a shaved head. I wish I didn't. I'd shave it just 'cuz. Maybe docs exciting announcement is he's going to learn how to do hair transplants!!
     
  6. brandO

    brandO Active Member

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    Dr. john has one hell of a full head of hair.

    i would agree with Wise Guy, when i do start losing my hair and im assuming i will one day...im going to just suck it up and be happy with who i am.

    why do men want hair anways because the media and tv tells us we need to have hair?
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2009
  7. rick055

    rick055 Active Member

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    How is it possible that such a phenomena could be missed?

    Don't get me wrong, I believe the relationship can exist for some users, I really do.

    But isn't there a way for users who have these issues to report them officially? Are they being ignored? Or does no mechanism exist?

    Said another way...is there anything which can be done to make the drug maker at least confront the issue?

    Can we petition them?
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2009
  8. Bulldog

    Bulldog Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    I'm curious as to how it wasn't noticed in the clinical trials. I guess it must have been "over looked".
     
  9. Shootist

    Shootist Member

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    I'll trade a little hair for virility any day.
     
  10. BigJimcalhoun

    BigJimcalhoun Active Member

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    Back when Finasteride was first approved back in 1997 or so, I signed up as fast as I could. I took it for a year or so but it did not stop my hair loss, so I stopped.

    I can't prove that is why I am on TRT today, but I took it and I am here now.

    I almost got into an argument with my dermitologist regarding Propecia and my use of TRT. I was there to get some crap scraped off my back so I figured it was not worth the argument. I can argue with people here instead.:cheers2:
     
  11. 4aminsomniac

    4aminsomniac Member

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    That last video is something we shouldn't do...flush pharmaceuticals down the toilet....throw them in the trash to be burned or burried at the dump....
     
  12. Sargovar

    Sargovar New Member

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    I still have a full head of thick hair, but if I do start to lose it someday I'm going to use a topical solution and perhaps try out one of those laser comb things. I'd accept baldness if it weren't for the fact that I look like a complete egg-head with no hair (I had a shaved head for a while as a teenager.. in retrospect it looked horrible). Thankfully I won't have to worry about that for a while longer.. and hopefully I'll keep my hair till old age like my maternal grandfather did.

    No way would I ever risk the potentially irreversible side-effects associated with these poisonous drugs. An internet friend of mine from my country had his life and health ruined by this stuff.. a good cautionary example of its dangers.

    I remember reading that Finasteride and similar drugs were banned altogether in Sweden because of the possible sexual side-effects.
     
  13. chilln

    chilln Banned

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    WOW! You just don't stop with all the good info! Thank you very very much. I'll always remind any finasteride / propecia / proscar sufferers to watch these videos.

    Thanks also for including in your video the part where you suggest a compounding pharmacist should be able to formulate a mixture of nizoral 2% and spironolactone 2% within a liposomal delivery system (gel).

    I know you already sell batches of this tonic pre-made, but I have had several forum members ask me about how they can purchase this outside of the USA.

    We are deeply indebted to you for all this info (as always).
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2009
  14. diesiel

    diesiel Active Member

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    Is there really no worry of systemic absorption with Ketoconazole 2% / spironolactone? If so, sign me the hell up.

    Dr john, is there any way i can get your formula if i live in canada?
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2009
  15. garcia

    garcia New Member

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    I agree. If there is one thing I'll never forget from this site its to avoid Finasteride.

    I've never taken the stuff, but I know what it is to have a broken endocrine system. In my case it was infection-triggered. It has totally devastated my life. The people suffering from the effects of this drug have my fully sympathy.

    Thank God for people like Dr John. :cheers2:
     
  16. Dr. John Crisler

    Dr. John Crisler Lord of the Forum Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Nothing of anyh significance.

    Yes, you can have it mailed to Canada.
     
  17. GirlyMan

    GirlyMan New Member

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    Do all the products (especially this one) on your allthingsmale site require prescriptions? Are the products listed there only available to your patients?
     
  18. Mew

    Mew New Member

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    Dr. John,

    This is Mew from Propeciahelp.com. First, just wanted to say thanks on behalf of all of us for taking a public stance on the dangers of Finasteride use, especially for cosmetic purposes.

    A number of us on the forum, after putting our heads together and exhausting most areas of investigation, have narrowed down our focus to the possibility that perhaps Finasteride caused some form of androgen insensitivity/downregulation, possibly downstream from the AR, via modified gene expression due to loss of DHT.

    Rather than reiterate why we have come to such conclusions, please read through the following 2 threads, as they sum up all the research thus far on our issues:

    http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2394
    http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2216

    We are trying to find research scientists or specialists in the androgen receptor/molecular genetics/epigenetics field who would be willing to assist us in researching our issues at the genetic/molecular level, to hopefully find the root cause of these ongoing side effects and why, despite TRT, many men feel no better.

    There are many, many men on the forum willing to undergo whatever testing is necessary (and willing to contribute whatever funds necessary), to be part of a study comparing us to men who have never taken Finasteride, to assess androgen receptor function/mutation and gene expression differences.

    Through your involvement in the medical community, perhaps you may have some research contacts who can assist us in this endeavour. The specific test/study we would like to undertake is "gene expression microarray testing". There are labs that do this worldwide -- unfortunately, we require the help of a research scientist who can construct the study, conduct the tests, analyze the data, and make sense of the results.

    Please let me know if you know of, or could put us in touch with, such specialists -- either via PM here, on propeciahelp.com or via email.

    Many thanks for your time.

    Mew

    ----------

    PS: it is interesting to note the parallels between your own experience administering TRT to post-Propecia sufferers ("Of note, and this is a HUGE point, it often takes testosterone levels well above normal range to get these guys feeling right again. Again, I do not know why.", from your post on hairlosshelp.com) and those of scientific researchers trying to treat men with Androgen Insensitivity:


    Response to androgen treatment in a patient with partial androgen insensitivity and a mutation in the deoxyribonucleic acid-binding domain of the androgen receptor. http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/83/4/1173
    -- Warning: contains not work safe photos

    "The benefits and risks of androgen therapy in a number of clinical disorders have been reviewed repeatedly (6, 7, 8), but successful treatment of AIS with supplemental androgen therapy has been achieved to date in only a few patients ."

    ... "long term treatment with testosterone and its analogs over many years had no effect. He was reported to have a limited clinical response to extremely high doses of testosterone (500 mg, three times a week), which resulted in an increase in libido, more frequent erections, and the production of penile discharge during sexual arousal. ""

    ---------

    Addendum:

    More reason to suspect androgen receptor function, ligand binding/signalling or gene expression downstream from the AR as a focus of investigation for our syndrome:


    HairDX Androgen Receptor CAG repeat test to check sensitivity to Finasteride:
    http://www.hairdx.com

    Effectiveness of Finasteride on Patients With Male Pattern Baldness Who Have Different Androgen Receptor Gene Polymorphism
    http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1406

    Pharmacogenetic analysis of human steroid 5 reductase type II: comparison of finasteride and dutasteride
    http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1407

    "Thus, future trials such as the PCPT and treatment protocols using 5-reductase inhibitors should consider genotyping men for SRD5A2 variants. In fact, we note that the pharmacogenetic inhibition increases for finasteride with time (Table 1) while it decreases for dutasteride (Table 2).

    This may suggest that dutasteride has a ‘tighter’ range for allelic and somatic variants, which may lessen the still considerable impact of pharmacogenetic variation in vitro. Thus, this compound may be generally better tolerated in vivo as well. "

    "However, the pharmacogenetic variation we uncovered for both finasteride and dutasteride is still very significant and this should be taken into account when designing protocols for treatment and/or chemoprevention of prostatic diseases with either one of these drugs"
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2009
  19. Mew

    Mew New Member

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    In my opinion, class action lawsuits are the only way this well get noticed by the mainstream media, and medical community at large.

    Alternatively, if there were some published medical research about the "Post-Finasteride Syndrome", it would go a long way in helping convince disbelieving doctors that this condition truly does exist.

    Dr John, have you ever considered publishing an article on your experiences/knowledge about the syndrome/patients you've treated (all of whom suffer similar symptoms)?
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2009
  20. Male28UK

    Male28UK New Member

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    Hi Dr John

    I'm a 29-year-old post-finasteride case from the UK, and I was extremely interested to read your recent comments on the post-finasteride syndrome over at Hairloss Talk.

    I have a question: hope that's OK.

    What interested me most was that it sounds like you've had some success treating post-finasteride men with TRT that aims for an above-range serum level of testosterone: "Of note, and this is a HUGE point, it often takes testosterone levels well above normal range to get these guys feeling right again...."

    That is a massive finding and not one I've ever heard about before. It certainly puts you at the cutting edge of post-Fin treatment. It points the way towards a whole new treatment method for this condition (well, new to us anyway; it sounds as though you've been using it for a while).

    Might it be possible for you to expand a bit on how you've used TRT in post-finasteride men, and the results you've seen?

    As you will obviously be aware, what tends to happen when you give TRT to post-fin men is that they feel better for a few days/couple of weeks, before response to the T seems to stop and you're left with only the estrogenic effects of the TRT, putting the patient back to square one. From then on, TRT can hold the patient steady at a high-normal serum level of T, but they feel no positive effect from it.

    On the whole, then, my impression has been that TRT does not work for post-Fin men. But your experience seems to point towards a different conclusion.

    Have you encountered this problem yourself? And have you found a way to circumvent it? Could you talk a bit more about the serum level of T that you have taken patients up to, and how, and the benefits they have seen from this?

    Thanks very much for any help you can give. And thanks, again, for posting. That one paragraph on how you first use HPTA re-starts and then move to TRT is of profound significance for anyone interested in treatment of this condition.

    I understand, of course, if you don't want to discuss your treatment methods publicly. If that is the case, please do PM me and if you are amenable I cd arrange for you to consult with my doctor under you normal terms. I'm about to start investigating TRT with my doctor, and he is an excellent practitioner, but you are vastly more experienced in treating this problem and your insights could literally change my life.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2009

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