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Official Finasteride Thread

Discussion in 'Post-Finasteride Syndrome & Accutane Sufferers' started by Dr. John Crisler, Jun 23, 2009.

  1. thx

    thx Member

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    Re: What about Saw Palmetto

    I believe the active ingredient in saw palmetto is beta-sitosterol. I had BPH and used beta-sit for over a year before developing symtoms: I was taking 2000mg a day. No libido and swollen, overly sensitive nipples. And like many who used finasteride or propecia the problems didn't go away once I quit using the beta-sit. I'm guessing for some men the 5-alpha reductase inhibitor shut something off. I can visualise this molecule sitting on the attachment sites preventing normal testosterone responses. After a 24-hour urine steroid assay I had a phone consult with the doctor here. I started testosterone cypionate 100mg once weekly injected sq into my spare tire. I use an oily product labeled for horses.

    Long before I BPH I used the testo cyp on myself. I quit because it sent my libido through the roof. It's not professional to be staring at the cleavage of my female clients. After the beta-sit problems I went back to the testo cyp and have not found it to have the same effect as before, meaning I'm not back to staring at female client's cleavage. That's why I think the beta-sit turned something off.

    A urologist had prescribed Proscar for the BPH. He said gynecomastia and other side effects would wear off within the first year. I never used it. I looked for a more 'natural' alternative and ended up with the beta-sit. The nipple sensitivity is much better. The libido is maybe half what I'd call normal. But at my age--56--I'm assuming it could just be natural aging.

    thx
     
  2. tiger13

    tiger13 New Member

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    Re: What about Saw Palmetto

    I am struggling to understand the effect finasteride and others have on libido. I believe low T (extremely low due to chronic illness - HIV and asymptomatic Hep B) is the main cause of my issues, and T-Cyp has made a huge different in my cognitive function and social abilities, but libido isn't what it used to be. After reading threads like this I wonder if my brief attempt at limiting my male pattern with finasteride could have messed something up.

    Honestly, I would love to have a moment where I'm tempted to give in to my "little head" ;) but I feel like those days are long gone.
     
  3. thx

    thx Member

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    Re: What about Saw Palmetto

    I even tried acupuncture but that didn't improve libido the way it had in the past.

    thx
     
  4. moonman

    moonman Member

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    Re: What about Saw Palmetto

    It seems that a lot of 5AR inhibitors can give you the irreversable symptoms....Accutane, Propecia, Saw Palmetto, Pygeum, etc
     
  5. Dr. John Crisler

    Dr. John Crisler Lord of the Forum Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Re: What about Saw Palmetto

    Last night I read a manuscript offering for the Journal of Sexual Medicine. I am a reviewer for that magazine.

    While I cannot divulge the contents of that study, and it did not involve PFS, I learned enough from it to now recommend we try an adjunctive therapy to PFS sufferers.

    All my PFS patients (who do not have contraindications) will now be offered daily Cialis, at 5mg. And the sooner the better.

    Please spread the word.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2012
  6. pmgamer18

    pmgamer18 Prince of the Forums

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    Re: What about Saw Palmetto

    That is great and it works great my heart Dr. even has me on this for my heart. BP meds work to good lower my BP down to low so 5 mgs of Cialis works great but try to get it approved by Medco.
     
  7. Dr. John Crisler

    Dr. John Crisler Lord of the Forum Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Re: What about Saw Palmetto

    Excellent point, Phil.

    I have been working with my patients with this drug, more and more now, and am quite fascinated by it.

    IF someone finds themselves in a situation with new-onset PFS, at this time I would recommend they immediately begin Cialis 5mg per day. I am going to predict it will help a lot.
     
  8. vincentv

    vincentv Member

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    Let us be clear -- Robocopp is taking 25mg aromasin evey day now. He says his libido is ok but better when he loses wheight.

    I have been speaking to him via email.
     
  9. moonman

    moonman Member

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    From my and other PFS experiences @ PH.com, low dose PDE5i does not have much of an effect at all. Also taking them daily or even EOD seems to make any effect ware off. Needs to by cycled almost at high doses.
     
  10. Dr. John Crisler

    Dr. John Crisler Lord of the Forum Staff Member Super Moderator

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    After reading what I did, my reasons are not necessarily related to erection on command capability.
     
  11. bluejaysfan

    bluejaysfan New Member

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    Related to reducing inflammation or the testosterone to estrogen ratio by chance?
     
  12. Dr. John Crisler

    Dr. John Crisler Lord of the Forum Staff Member Super Moderator

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    How about just keeping the thing in good shape?
     
  13. welec

    welec Guest

    My story in short :

    43 yrs old, took finasteride 12 years ago. Over the last decade my libido was getting progressively worse, to the point that in the past two years i have severe impotence problem.

    I am hoping to shed some light here. First of all, i keep a very detailed log on how i feel , what supplements i am getting and how my libido is affected. The good thing (which gives me hope) is that even a small boost of Testosterone makes me feel good for a couple of days.

    While being on Finasteride i was also using Ketoconazole and N-Acetyl Cysteine. When i quit finasteride the following events happened :

    1) Urticaria all over my body
    2) Joint Pains
    3) Tinnitus (but not lasting more than 2-3 seconds)
    4) Inability to swallow properly due to GI spasms

    I am sure that a havoc is caused because my immune response to any inflammation. Currently i am hypothyroid and receiving T4. I have also secondary hypogonadism : Low T, Low FT, normal SHBG. I have found numerous times E2 to be high.


    To this day i know when i am having an Inflammatory attack (starts with Tinnitus) and then the following happens


    1) Impotence
    2) Inability to sleep properly (I am getting up very early but have no problem to get to sleep)
    3) Restless Leg Syndrome
    4) Myoclonus
    5) Orthostatic Hypotension


    I am more than certain that my immune system (or something else) brings havoc to my Nervous System (Notice 3,4,5 above).

    What helps :

    According to my Log the following things do help :

    1) Eating High Cholesterol foods
    2) Vitamin D3 - at least 2000 IU/day (I have tried up to 4000) - also helped me in progressively sleeping more
    3) Brocolli
    4) D-Aspartic Acid
    5) Intense Exercising
    6) Blueberry Juice (increases NO).


    I had tests such as LHRH test which showed a good response from my pituitary. My endo said that "your pituitary doesn't listen to the fact that your testo is Low"

    Other tests :

    Low DHT (within normal but Low)
    Low 3-Adiol G (within normal range but Low)


    Dr John i would appreciate any comments - I am not in US but i would really like to get consultation from you. I am also willing to go through the analysis of my Log to see other patterns that could shed light into this.



    Thank you
     
  14. Jaydee

    Jaydee Member

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    Would a penis pump work in this instance? Many urologists have their patients use penis pumps daily to gain back erection problems. Obviously for those reading on, there is a technique to this (so I'm told lol) and you can do damage to you pecker if you're not carefull.
     
  15. MobInWhite

    MobInWhite New Member

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  16. esermon

    esermon Guest

    hello, i am a post finasteride sufferer from italy, i quitted the drug in october 2010. I have good results having testosterone very high, above the normality range, but the problem is that is difficult to keep such levels, both because the body starts to get used to so much testosterone and because of the raise of estradiol ( or rather i think it is because of those reasons). I want to have very high testosterone from the 15-22 july, and now i have 2000 u.l. hcg, and 250 mg of testosterone enantato, i can't translate it in english, basically it is injectable testosterone. When do you advice me to use hcg and when testosterone to maximize the result for that week, in general to have the best results for a certain week how many days before should i tak hcg and how many days before should i take testosterone?
     
  17. tiger13

    tiger13 New Member

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    Interesting that you say that. I am unsure if I'm affected by my dabble with Finasteride a few years ago, but I also have low T due to other causes. In any case I have been experimenting with dosage over the last 8 months and have found that high end (actually, above range) is the only place where my libido comes back. It is such a subtle but significant feeling.
     
  18. pmgamer18

    pmgamer18 Prince of the Forums

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    I just seen a CNN News story about finasteride today 07-13-12 there is a study going on about this drug and now on the lable it says that things that men have suffered from using it. I went to CNN.com to find the story but like most News sites you can't find crap on what they talked about.

    They even showed this web site were men go to that have problems from using it. http://www.propeciasideeffects.com/
     
  19. moonman

    moonman Member

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    Single biggest day in PFS awareness.

    http://gma.yahoo.com/men-propecias-...ong-lasting-215732153--abc-news-wellness.html

    http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/13/health/propecia-healthland-baldness-drug/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

    Huffington Post
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/13/propecia-baldness-drug-sex-problems_n_1671275.html

    US News & World Report
    http://health.usnews.com/health-news/news/articles/2012/07/13/health-highlights-july-13-2012

    ABC News: July 12, 2012
    For Some Men, Propecia's Sexual Side Effects May Be Long-lasting
    http://abcnews.go.com/Health/baldne...rmanent-sexual/story?id=16758123#.T_7qMvXrB7Q

    Time Magazine: July 12, 2012
    Propecia Problems: Baldness Drug Linked with Long-Lasting Sexual Side Effects
    http://healthland.time.com/2012/07/...linked-with-long-lasting-sexual-side-effects/


    MailOnline: July 12, 2012
    Baldness Drug Wayne Rooney Took 'Could Cause Permanent Impotence and Shrink Genitals in Some Men'
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...ce-shrink-genitals-men.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

    The Sun: July 12, 2012
    Hair Loss Drug Used by Rooney 'Could Cause Impotence'
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...rug-used-by-Rooney-could-cause-impotence.html


    http://ofsajd.onet.pl/plotki/rooney-impotentem,1,5188382,artykul.html

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...ce-shrink-genitals-men.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

    http://www.express.de/fussball/gege...s-zu-impotenz-fuehren-kann,3186,16612832.html

    http://www.berliner-kurier.de/fussb...u-impotenz-fuehren-kann,7168900,16612832.html

    " http://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...snt-causing-your-erectile-dysfunction/259803/


    Dr Drew
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqFIYwCH1Y8&feature=relmfu

    NBC Tonight
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_ivSvW6AhU&feature=relmfu

    NBC Today
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RXuZrbFUY8&feature=relmfu

    ABC World News
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHQMjZUTna8&feature=relmfu
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2012
  20. MaxThrax

    MaxThrax Member

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    I'll throw in my two cents: I never took Finasteride, but I did take saw palmetto for a few years to combat some thinning hair, which I now believe was caused by my thyroid issues, now fixed. My symptoms were all sexual, lower libido and poor erection quality, including lack of spontaneous erections. I started on NatureThryoid and 50 mg test compounded cream, then upped to 100mg cream which caused my DHT to go way over the top of the range, made my naturopath doctor flip out about the high free testosterone and losing his license. However, night time wood came back into my life at that dosage and libido had started to increase. So I found a great new doctor and I started on injections, first 100, then 200 mg a week. I felt great physically, but my libido tanked and night time wood disappeared. During this time I applied some test cream that I had leftover at the bottom of the tube, and it brought back some of the libido and some night time wood, though weaker as it wasn't much cream. So I am now back on cream at 200mg as of 3 days ago, my new doc really is great, and I'm starting to feel libido again and I had night time wood last night. It seems that I need very high levels of DHT to feel the androgenic effects at all and it makes me wonder about the Saw Palmetto and whether it desensitized me to DHT. I should note that I require Cialis and an alpha blocker to get good enough erections for intercourse.

    I just read the Dr Crisler mention low dosage daily Cialis and sounded enthusiastic about it....I will give it a shot. I'll leave discussion about alpha blockers to the Tierry's excellent thread.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2012

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