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Official Finasteride Thread

Discussion in 'Post-Finasteride Syndrome & Accutane Sufferers' started by Dr. John Crisler, Jun 23, 2009.

  1. Dr. John Crisler

    Dr. John Crisler Lord of the Forum Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I know that.

    He is being advised by an Endocrinologist who has some pretty screwy ideas about things, IMPO. Enough about that.

    DHT is very necessary for the functioning of the entire pelvic area. And it really comes from intracellular production from testosterone.

    5-AR reduction results in MORE aggressive prostate cancer, BTW.
     
  2. moonman

    moonman Member

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    Ya I found it interesting that they left out the fact that Finasteride can lead to a higher % of the more deadly cancer.
     
  3. Dumaurier

    Dumaurier New Member

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    never had back issues on daily cialis. am not going to try topical finasteride mixed with minox and zyrtec. Anyone tried this?
     
  4. theturducken

    theturducken Member

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    As most of you guys know, I've been on here for quite a while and over the past 5 years have made what I consider solid improvements. I've gone from panic attacks, depression, zero energy and no sexual function to my old upbeat and active self. Here and there I've had some sexual improvement, but still have some issues. Now as I'm getting into a serious relationship I'm starting to notice my libido and erections falling again and the usual remedies are not working. I took propecia for around 6 months back in college (2003) and instantly had erection problems on it, I have never addressed this as a big part of my hormone issues. Here is an overview of my past/current problems:

    1. No morning wood
    2. No ability to have sex more than once in a 24 hour period
    3. NO erections without cialis/viagra
    4. Minor gyno even with exercise diet etc
    5. Premature ejactulation.

    Here are the thing's I've done/do:

    1. Test cyp shots e5d 50mg
    2. HCG 250iu 2x week
    3. thyroid/preg/dhea supps


    Things Ive tried:

    1. TD test, lowered my levels, didn't improve anything, but this was the Androgel 2.62 and it seems to get a "meh" response

    2. Cialis/alphablocker/yohime - this used to work great, on demand, no issues, now it doesn't do anything, might even prevent erections

    3. DA - Caber. This makes me manic, sex obsessed, to the point where it is scary and I am too obsessed. However erections aren't improved

    Observations:

    1. Even on caber I couldn't do a round two
    2. Here and there with test/hcg, even some SSRI's I would get some "normalize" morning wood and erection response. all fleeting though
    3. HCG leads to improvements
    4. Test IM 50mg E50 still puts me over range
    5. E2 was always low, on T it is balanced NO NEED FOR AI


    Considerations:

    1. Since even a low does of IM test puts me over range, might go to a TD but not the 2.62
    2. Keep HCG
    3. What do you guys know about LDN?


    Any suggestions? This relationship is starting to be great and as my libido is tanking I can see it will be an issue for me, I don't want this.
     
  5. JanSz

    JanSz Well-Known Member

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    What is your cortisol and FreeCortisol at 7:30AM
    Cortisol, Free, Serum, With CBG (Endocrine Sciences) Test Number: 500440 CPT Code: 82533; 84449

    Is your sleep ok?


    //


    //////////////////
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2014
  6. theturducken

    theturducken Member

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    Sleep is great, had my tonsils out and now no apena, fall asleep well, stay alseep

    Gonna try 20mg IM e3d, with my numbers going so high, could I try androgel 1%? 1.62 was a disaster for me, but I think that is because it wasn't absorbing right

    Going to go back to

    1. td preg and td dhea (MLM drives my cortisol sky high)
    2. Up my hcg to 3x a week
    3. daily cialis
    4. do a demo of LDN
    5. Get my normal tests (preg, prog, dhea, cort, thyroid, test, and add Free e2)

    questions

    1. Should I test e1? before I had in e2 <32, yet high total estrogens

    I really think if the 1% absorbs differently, I could get by with around 75mg/day of it and some Hcg and be set on that area

    Also, the propeciahelp guys seem to all try clomid instead....would this be worth a shot if I tried to stop IM, do a clomid reset, and if nothing go to TD and hcg?
     
  7. JanSz

    JanSz Well-Known Member

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    I am not familiar with clomid, besides, you do not want to use clomid next 40 years.

    (Androgel 1%) is costly, meant to prop DHT the last few points.
    If you would use only Androgel 1% there is a good chance that you would have excessive DHT, that is also not desirable.

    Do not overlook your (likely) low SHBG.
    Study thyroid panel,
    and work on it until you get your ratios right (both ratios within green area, TSH~1


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
  8. JanSz

    JanSz Well-Known Member

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    Previously you said:
    E2 was always low,
    ------------------------------

    So, you have low or lowish E1 & E2
    and
    high Total Estrogens


    I think this may be your major problem.

    Additionally, you posted all this on Official-Finasteride-Thread,
    if you have used Finasteride
    you may have damaged Estrogen receptor B.
    So you may be working on one cylinder instead of two.
    ---
    Good idea to study your estrogens.

    Way back then, some years ago, you had urine test at Rhein Labs and dr John allowed you to post it on board.
    At the time I think you used preg-MLM and we though that it was the reason for messed up results.
    Possible preg-MLM was not the culprit.
    I cant locate that thread, if you can, post link to it.

    -------------------

    In the mean time, 3 tablespoons of coconut oil daily or more if you can, may tweak your receptor B.

    Read about that someplace on page 5 & 6 of thread here:

    http://www.allthingsmale.com/forum/...l-Glucuronide-(3α-diol-G)&p=218398#post218398


     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2014
  9. 09eric09

    09eric09 New Member

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    Anybody know how Dr. Crisler goes about helping pfs sufferers with extreme fatigue? Any suggestions from any other members?
     
  10. theturducken

    theturducken Member

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    Great insight Jansz,

    I'm going to retest estrogens, which tests do you suggest?
     
  11. tumbleweeds

    tumbleweeds New Member

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    Any solutions in this thread????
     
  12. org100

    org100 New Member

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    Hello All,

    i'm 32yo
    i taked propecia 10 years ago, for only 3 month before my life crashed
    i first notice i was unable to maintain an erection (i was 22yo at the time, didnt have any problem with erection before)
    first, i didnt even knew it was related to the propecia, my doctor didnt tell me anything about possible side effects
    and at the third month of taking propecia i finally connected the two, and was found out that the problem was lack of sex drive - i watched porno and it didnt do anything for me anymore, it didnt got my horny in the first time in my life.
    well, i guess i dont need to explain to you all my symptoms...

    i did alot of blood test all those years, 1 year after stopping the propecia (i took it for 3 months total)
    i tested Testosterone Total and other hormones, and the Testosterone came back at 44.8nmol/l
    when the highest normal should be 28.8nmol/l maximum.
    i didnt understand at the time how come my libido is ZERO but my testosterone is sky high.
    year after i did the test again, and it came back at 32.8nmol/l
    but nothing changed, i lost the ability to even feel my penis, it was numb
    i needed alot of time in order to masturbate, and i didnt enjoy the orgasm as i used to before using propecia.
    i was walking dead
    i tried alot of supplements over the years, but nothing helped.
    until 2009, when i got Wellbutrin XR 150/mg , as i thought maybe the problem of no libido has be connected
    to dopamine, and i was half right, 12 days after i started the wellbutrin, one night i woke up
    with an amazing libido, my sexual desire has returned after so many painfull years
    my penis got his life back, i could touch it and really feel it connected to my brain
    at the first time after all those years.
    also, after many years of other symptoms related to propecia - like hand tremors, and cold hands and feet, sweating all the time, brain fog and more, those symptoms subsides, and i could finally feel 80% normal again.
    after 1 great month on wellbutrin, i decided to stop it, in order to keep my dopamine receptor normal
    i affraid if i keep using it, maybe it will fried my dopamine system, and with time the wellbutrin will loose its effective
    so i stopped it, and my body stays that way for the next 3 years, without wellbutrin and without anything else.
    except for memory issues - that never resolved, i dont have short term memory, or maybe i have 10% of it today.

    so for the next 3 years, i could masturbate (usually once a day, but it was great for someone who couldnt do it for years!)
    i also tried having sex, whice was more difficult, but i could manage sometimes.

    2 years ago i lost my libido again, but this time without having brain fog or tremor.
    i tried alot of supplemts again, and finally tried wellbutrin again
    but this time - wellbutrin just did nothing for me, and the magic was gone
    i took wellbutrin and felt nothing, i could even sleep (something that usually couldnt happend while on wellbutrin)
    and actually, wellbutrin doing nothing for me anymore, so i'm hopeless again.

    my hormone tests are within range, and i was never able to check DHT level, cause in my country
    this test does not exist.
    but my Testosterone Total level today is 27nmol/l (withing the range of 8.8 - 44.8nmol/l)
    my estrogen (estradiol E2) is normal within range, and was always was.
    progesterone is normal, at the the lower side.
    IGF-1 : 244ng/ml little high (maxium normal range is 204
    Cortisol is ok : 540 (range 138 - 690)
    LH & FSH are at the middle of the range, and always was.
    TSH is 1.49 whice is normal
    Prolactin : 270 (range 45-375)
    the only hormone that is low is Dhea-S , whice is 4.7 (range 5.5 8.5)

    i also at the time tried Andractim (DHT GEL) whice didnt help and maybe even made me feel worse
    and also took Proviron whice did the same.

    something else i forgot, all those years, my ejaculation volume was very low and still is
    now something like 1ml


    i'm asking Dr. Crisler, and all other PFS suffers
    is there anything else i can do?
    is there anything else i can take?
    is there anything more i can think about to help me get to my old self ?

    usually i read guys saying that their testosterone went down when stopping propecia and years after
    but its not my case, it was very high after propecia, and stayed normal mid and usually even upped level
    all those years (i think my testosterone didnt convert to DHT, thats why its high level all this time)

    Thank you,

    Or
     
  13. 09eric09

    09eric09 New Member

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    Anybody else suffer from absolute exhaustion? My body is so weak and tired all the time. Any suggestions?
     
  14. bejamin

    bejamin New Member

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    09eric09 try checking your cortisol levels. The only real solution is to live your life as stress free as possible.
     
  15. Jaydee

    Jaydee Member

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    I may have posted this before but I will post it again.

    This Dr. Orion Truss M.D. states that candida in the tissue somehow inhibits the tissue from responding normally to hormones.

    http://www.angelchiro.com/candida.htm
     
  16. slickvic

    slickvic Member

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    Androgen induction of steroid 5 alpha-reductase may be mediated via insulin-like growth factor-I.

    The action of added insulin-like growth factor-I (IGF-I) and dihydrotestosterone (DHT) on steroid 5 alpha-reductase (5 alpha R) activity was studied using primary cultures of rat or human scrotal skin fibroblasts. Agents were added to cultured cells (2 x 10(5) cells) for 2 days, and enzyme activity was measured by the percent conversion of [3H] testosterone to DHT over a 4-h period in the absence of fetal calf serum or other growth factors. DHT, but not testosterone, at 10(-7) M significantly increased 5 alpha R activity (rat, 1.5 +/- 0.3% to 3.0 +/- 0.4%; human, 7.6 +/- 1.7% to 11.4 +/- 2.9%; P < 0.01). IGF-I (10(-9)-6.4 x 10(-9) M), but not IGF-II (10(-9)-10(-8) M) or insulin (10(-9)-10(-7) M), increased enzyme activity in a dose-related fashion [i.e. 1.5 +/- 0.5 to 10 +/- 2 in rat and 6.0 +/- 1.1 to 9.8 +/- 1.6% (P < 0.01) in human cells]. No change in cell numbers was observed in any experiment. Since the effect of IGF-I was about 100 times that of androgen, we studied the possibility that androgen induction of the enzyme activity could be via IGF-I production. Addition of a monoclonal antibody against IGF-I significantly reduced the effect of DHT, and simultaneous addition of a specific IGF-I receptor antibody blocked the expected induction of 5 alpha R activity (control, 4.9 +/- 0.5; DHT, 8.0 +/- 1.9; DHT plus IGF-I receptor antibody, 3.7 +/- 0.4%). No effect on 3 alpha-reduction of [3H]DHT to 3 alpha-androstanediol was detected in separate experiments. These studies indicate that IGF-I may be an important regulator of skin 5 alpha R activity and, thus, may influence DHT formation. The previously known androgen induction of this peripheral steroidogenic enzyme may be via paracrine/autocrine production of an IGF-I-type growth factor.


    http://press.endocrine.org/doi/abs/10.1210/endo.133.2.8344190
     

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