1. Welcome to the All Things Male Forum. Please sign up and join the conversation. It's free!

Official GHRP thread

Discussion in 'Male Health & HRT' started by hardasnails1973, Dec 20, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. hardasnails1973

    hardasnails1973 Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2007
    Messages:
    6,057
    Likes Received:
    6
    Official GHRT thread

    For people that are on GHRT therapy lets share our experiences with this wonderful new advancement in antiaging..
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2008
  2. BigJimcalhoun

    BigJimcalhoun Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    1,003
    Likes Received:
    1
    I am interested in learning more about this. I am currently not under treatment for this, but given the new exciting things happening related to replacing HGH with other stuff, I am interested to learn more.
     
  3. Wise Guy

    Wise Guy Talking Monkey Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    5,764
    Likes Received:
    5
    You talking about GHRP-6, or GHRT
     
  4. medgerton

    medgerton Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    926
    Likes Received:
    2
    Just so I am clear. GHRP-6 is a product that is used in GHRT. Correct?
     
  5. Wise Guy

    Wise Guy Talking Monkey Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    5,764
    Likes Received:
    5
    Yes. GHRP-6, and GHRT info, taken from DatBtru on another board


    Synthetic Growth Hormone is an artificially created hormone "identical" to the major naturally produced (endogenic) isoform. It is often referred to by its molecular mass which is 22kDa (kilodaltons) and is made up of a sequence of 191 amino acids (primary structure) with a very specific folding pattern that comprise a three-dimensional structure (tertiary structure).

    This tertiary structure is subject to potential shape change through a process known as thermal denaturation. While many labs are capable of generating growth hormone (GH) with the proper primary structure not all will be capable of creating a tertiary structure identical to the major naturally occurring growth hormone.

    The tertiary structure can determine the strength with which the growth hormone molecule binds to a receptor which will in turn affect the "strength" of the intracellular signaling which mediates the events leading to protein transcription, metabolism, IGF-1 creation, etc. It is this inconsistency that accounts in part for the differences in effectiveness of various non-pharmaceutically produced synthetic growth hormone.

    Naturally produced Growth Hormone is produced in the anterior pituitary and to a far lesser extent in peripheral tissue. It is made up of a blend of isoforms the majority of which is the 22kDa (191 amino acid) variety with which most are familiar. In addition an isoform that is missing the 15 amino acids that interact with the prolactin receptor is also produced. This form is known as 20kDa and although it binds differently to the growth hormone receptor it has been shown to be equally potent to 22kDa.

    It appears that 20kDa has lower diabetogenic activity then 22kDa. The pituitary releases a blend of these two isoforms with 20kDa averaging perhaps 10% of the total although this percentage increases post-exercise. Currently there is no synthetic produced for external administration for this isoform.

    Growth hormone (GH) in the body is released in pulsatile fashion. It has been demonstrated that this pattern promotes growth. The pituitary is capable of rather quickly synthesizing very large amounts of growth hormone which it stores large amounts in both a finished and unfinished form. Adults rarely experience GH pulses (i.e. releases of pituitary stores) that completely deplete these stores.

    As we age we do not lose the ability to create and store large amounts of growth hormone. Rather we experience a diminished capacity to "instruct" their release. The volume of GH that is released can not be properly equated to the exogenic administration of synthetic GH for the reason that a set of behavioral characteristics accompany natural GH that differ from those of synthetic GH.

    Among those characteristics are concentrated pulsatile release which upon binding in mass to growth hormone receptors on the surface of cells initiate signaling cascades which mediate growth events by translocating signaling proteins to the nucleus of the cell where protein transcription and metabolic events occur.

    These very important signaling pathways desensitize to Growth Hormone's initiating effects and need to experience an absence of Growth Hormone in order to reset and be ready to act again. The presence of GH released in pulsatile fashion is graphed as a wave with the low or no growth hormone period graphed as a trough. Therefore attempting to find a natural GH to synthetic GH equivalency is not very productive because in the end what is probably import is:

    - the quantity & quality of intracellular signaling events; and
    - the degree to which GH stimulates autocrine/paracrine (locally produced/locally used) muscle IGF-1 & post-exercise its splice variant MGF.

    Still an attempt was made on my part in an article written many months ago the results of which should not be relied on for absolute numbers. Rather it should serve to demonstrate that the body can produce pharmacological levels of growth hormone.

    The initiation of growth hormone release in the pituitary is dependent on a trilogy of hormones:

    Somatostatin which is the inhibitory hormone and responsible in large part for the creation of pulsation;

    Growth Hormone Releasing Hormone (GHRH) which is the stimulatory hormone responsible for initiating GH release; and

    Ghrelin which is a modulating hormone and in essence optimizes the balance between the "on" hormone & the "off" hormone. Before Ghrelin was discovered the synthetic growth hormone releasing peptides (GHRPs) were created and are superior to Ghrelin in that they do not share Ghrelin's lipogenic behavior. These GHRPs are GHRP-6, GHRP-2, Hexarelin and later Ipamorelin all of which behave in similar fashion.

    In the aging adult these Ghrelin-mimetics or the GHRPs restore a more youthful ability to release GH from the pituitary as they turn down somatostatin's influence which becomes stronger as we age and turn up growth hormone releasing hormone's influence which becomes weaker as we age.

    The exogenic administration of Growth Hormone Releasing Hormone (GHRH) creates a pulse of GH release which will be small if administered during a natural GH trough and higher if administered during a rising natural GH wave.

    Growth Hormone Releasing Peptides (GHRP-6, GHRP-2, Hexarelin) are capable of creating a larger pulse of GH on their own then GHRH and they do this with much more consistency and predictability without regard to whether a natural wave or trough of GH is currently taking place.

    It is well documented and established that the concurrent administration of Growth Hormone Releasing Hormone (GHRH) and a Growth Hormone Releasing Peptide (GHRP-6, GHRP-2 or Hexarelin) results in synergistic release of GH from pituitary stores. In other words if GHRH contributes a GH amount quantified as the number 2 and GHRPs contributed a GH amount quantified as the number 4 the total GH release is not additive (i.e. 2 + 4 = 6). Rather the whole is greater than the sum of the parts such that 2 + 4 = 10.

    While the GHRPs (GHRP-6, GHRP-2 and Hexarelin) come in only one half-life form and are capable of generating a GH pulse that lasts a couple of hours readministration of a GHRP is required to effect additional pulses.

    Growth Hormone Releasing Hormone (GHRH) however is currently available in several forms which vary only by their half-lives. Naturally occurring GHRH is either a 40 or 44 amino acid peptide with the bioactive portion residing in the first 29 amino acids. This shortened peptide identical in behavior and half-life to that of GHRH is called Growth Hormone Releasing Factor and is abbreviated as GRF(1-29).

    GRF(1-29) is produced and sold as a drug called Sermorelin. It has a short-half life measured in minutes. If you prefer analogies think of this as a Testosterone Suspension (i.e. unestered).

    To increase the stability and half-life of GRF(1-29) four amino acid changes where made to its structure. These changes increase the half-life beyond 30 minutes which is more than sufficient to exert a sustained effect which will maximize a GH pulse. This form is often called tetrasubstituted GRF(1-29) (or modified) and unfortunately & confusingly mislabeled as CJC-1295. If you prefer analogies think of this as a Testosterone Propionate (i.e. short-estered).

    Frequent dosing of either the aforementioned modified GRF(1-29) or regular GRF(1-29) is required and as previously indicated works synergistically with a GHRP.

    In an attempt to create a more convenient long-lasting GHRH, a compound known as CJC-1295 was created. This compound is identical to the aforementioned modified GRF(1-29) with the addition of the amino acid Lysine which links to a non-peptide molecule known as a "Drug Affinity Complex (DAC)". This complex allows GRF(1-29) to bind to albumin post-injection in plasma and extends its half-life to that of days. If you prefer analogies think of this as a Testosterone Cypionate (i.e. long-estered)

    CJC-1295 is difficult to produce and expensive to make. As a result it could be cost-prohibitive to use extensively. Modified GRF(1-29) while less convenient is much less expensive to make and because it is a pure peptide the synthesis process is straightforward. It should sell at a fraction of the cost of CJC-1295.
     
  6. JackBauer

    JackBauer Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    774
    Likes Received:
    3
    Who is a candidate for GHRP therapy?

    Would it be age based, or symptom based?
     
  7. Wise Guy

    Wise Guy Talking Monkey Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    5,764
    Likes Received:
    5
    Both. But one would have to have lower IGF-1 levels for sure. Probably bottom 3rd of range.

    But most gents over 40 do have low GH. Actually many over 30 do as well
     
  8. medgerton

    medgerton Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    926
    Likes Received:
    2

    Just to start this discussion off on the right foot shouldn't we be talking about GHRT?

    Since one could use GHRP-6 or 2 by itself for GH boost or one could use Growth Hormone Releasing Factor GRF(1-29) sermorelin by itself to boost GH.

    Or if one was smart one would use both simultaneously.
     
  9. Wise Guy

    Wise Guy Talking Monkey Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    5,764
    Likes Received:
    5
    One could use GHRP-6 solo by itself, at 100mcg a night, and see solid results. They would likely get a decent nighttime pulse in GH levels.

    Sermorelin cannot be ran by itself. It's half life is to short(30-45 minutes) to sustain any lasting benefit.

    Put them together though and you have an amazing combo. Think 1 + 1 = 3
     
  10. medgerton

    medgerton Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    926
    Likes Received:
    2
    Yep. I got that.

    My point was is this "official" thread about GHRP or more broadly GHRT? I see you ask that question in your initial post! So. I am a bit redundant.

    Thank you for posting that DatBtru article. I had to read it a few times and then I saved it as a Word doc for future reference. Who is this guy? I've read his posts that you posted in this forum. They are very informative.
     
  11. Wise Guy

    Wise Guy Talking Monkey Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    5,764
    Likes Received:
    5
    Yea, it should be called the official GHRT thread. LOL Nails cannot spell to save his life. I'm convinced he has the worst case of ADD I have ever seen :biggrin:

    Who is datBtru? I have no idea. He has some amazing, amazing thoughts on HRT and GHRT. Givin his protocols he put out a long time ago, it looks like he was Dr. Johns inspiration for his new protocol.

    To through out a guess, I would say he sounds/posts like some sort of Organic Chemistry Researcher, maybe a PharmD.
     
  12. hardasnails1973

    hardasnails1973 Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2007
    Messages:
    6,057
    Likes Received:
    6
    i meant to say ghrt..i tried to correct it but my magic wand was not working today LOL
    Wise guy I could use a helping hand..
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2008
  13. keith1958

    keith1958 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2007
    Messages:
    807
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have got some amazing results so far from this new therapy. I am sleeping for the first time in many years and I have morning woods that wake the dead. I continue to loose body fat even though I am not dropping weight anymore. My waist keeps getting smaller. All this and a sense of well being. I do think my Estrogen climbed but I just added another dose of Arimidex back into the mix and I think I got it under control. I also think its going to keep on getting better. I can not say much on strength or any related training stuff since I hurt my shoulder pretty much when I started this therapy. Rotator cuff damage I think. I am going to a Ortho tomorrow so we will see. I am still working out just light weights. Which at my age is still good.
     
  14. monomer

    monomer Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2008
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    Can you post the details of what you are doing?
     
  15. Wise Guy

    Wise Guy Talking Monkey Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    5,764
    Likes Received:
    5
    Thats awesome Keith. I'm glad to hear your having great results. I cannot wait to get on it!

    Hans, sorry, I cannot fix spelling on a post. Or I would have LOL. Post up your experiences!

    Oh and Keith, localized IGF-1 would do wonders for helping that shoulder repair. Not that I advocate that sort of thing :cheers2:

    Either way, having high circulating GH levels pulsing at night will do wonders as well :thumbup:
     
  16. JackBauer

    JackBauer Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    774
    Likes Received:
    3
    Great news Keith.

    I wonder what the mechanism is for improving erections?

    With what degree of certainty can you say that your EQ has improved? Is it "night and day", an absolute certainty?

    I ask because in my journey, I have had instances where I got my hopes up because a new therapy happened to coincide with either a brief improvement in EQ - or a sustained improvement in EQ, but nowhere near where it needs to be, and no further improvement came.

    Thanks :)
     
  17. medgerton

    medgerton Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    926
    Likes Received:
    2
    Thanks for posting your good experience with this protocol. Keep 'em coming.
     
  18. keith1958

    keith1958 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2007
    Messages:
    807
    Likes Received:
    0
    T-CYP Normal dose
    HCG Dr. Crisler's protocol
    Arimidex .25 2-3 Times a week
    GHRP-6 100mcg Bedtime
    Sermorelin 100mcg Bedtime
    BYStolic 5mg once a day for blood pressure
    Lots of supplements
    Lift weights 4 days a week
    Cardio 4 days a week
    2 days rest
    Eat clean and healthy most of the time

    I have noticed this the last several days. I believe it is the GHRH but only time will tell. I have always had low E2 and only took Arimidex .25 once a week. My last test results my E2 was high and this is the reason I upped my Arimidex to 2 times a week. I have had a strong sex drive and no ED ever since I started HRT, but my morning and night time wood was always so so.

    I will
     
  19. Wise Guy

    Wise Guy Talking Monkey Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    5,764
    Likes Received:
    5
    That right there is fantastic news. E2 only goes high on TRT if testosterone gets high first.

    So its working for sure

    I wonder if Dr John has you on the original sermorelin, or the modified longer acting one.

    Probably the original.
     
  20. JackBauer

    JackBauer Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    774
    Likes Received:
    3
    So no real change in your normal erection strength, at least that you've noticed?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.