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Resistant Starch

Discussion in 'Diet & Nutrition' started by JanSz, Mar 11, 2014.

  1. JanSz

    JanSz Well-Known Member

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    Apple

    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/resistant-starch-zinc-deficiency/#axzz2smJgYhdX

    What about so-called resistant starch, that is, starch that passes undigested through the stomach but arrives in the colon? There’s some emerging evidence that the good bacteria that live in the colon need to feed on this starch in order to thrive. In other words, if everything is processed by the stomach and small intestine, the good “microbiome” is underfed, and the bad guys can multiply. An unhealthy microbiome may be tied to all sorts of auto-immune diseases. Do we need some resistant starch in our diets?

    Read more: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/resistant-starch-zinc-deficiency/#ixzz2vfcUoJwu


    Bob's Red Mill Potato Starch, 24-Ounce (Pack of 4)
    http://www.amazon.com/Bobs-Red-Mill...&qid=1384143343&sr=8-1&keywords=potato+starch

    Price: $26.99 ($0.28 / oz)
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    Jack

    http://jackkruse.com/january-2014-webinar-qa-resistant-starch-throw/

    Dr. Kruse’s conclusions found something different than the hype: real food works better than man-made resistant starch. And many of the reports out there are from people who are healthy, not people who […]

    Nuts---walnuts, almond, pistachio, pine nuts
    they contain natural resistant starch
    they make hydroxy-buthyrate
    no cooking of nuts
    increase bifido bacteria
    also
    include fermented meats, salami, prosciuto, ham


    ========================================
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    Patricia

    Bodybio.com

    http://www.bodybio.com/storecategory97.aspx
    http://www.bodybio.com/storeproduct361.aspx


    Butyrate (Calcium/Magnesium)
    250 capsules (600mg)
    Butyrate is a short chain fatty acid that is a potent detoxifier of ammonia and neurotoxins. It encourages the formation of friendly bacteria in the gut.

    Item# SP325
    Brand: BodyBio
    $60.70


    //
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2014
  2. cpeil2

    cpeil2 Active Member

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    Tubers and legumes are full of resistant starch.
     
  3. CFIDS

    CFIDS Member

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    I'd like to know if white kidney bean extract is resistant starch...it is real good at lowering the glycemic index of carbs when taken with a meal.
     
  4. cpeil2

    cpeil2 Active Member

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    It inhibits amylase, the enzyme that digests starch.
     
  5. moonman

    moonman Member

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    JJ (author of Virgin diet) and Dave Asprey said that they did not notice any benefits from it.

    I have 2 friends who say it helps tho.
     
  6. JanSz

    JanSz Well-Known Member

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    Not sure, but I think resistant starch is a uncooked starch (of some kind).

    After cooking, resistant starch becomes ordinary high GI starch.

    That is why Jack was recommending soaking nuts but do not heat treat.

    -------
    Please correct me or clarify.


    .............................
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2014
  7. hebsie

    hebsie Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    ...yes and no. There's four types of RS. Some is found in raw food (type 2). Some is formed after cooking, and then cooling, through a process called retrogradation (type 3).

    Do you read FreeTheAnimal? Richard and Tim are pretty much the current authority on this topic.

    Most beans are also 'relatively' low in RS, but still good just the same. See this PDF --> Resistant-Starch-in-Foods
     
  8. xks201

    xks201 Active Member

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    People on another forum were claiming this had nootropic effects. Farting all day seems to be quite the new thing.
     
  9. CFIDS

    CFIDS Member

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    I fart a lot on white kidney bean extract
     
  10. davidrn

    davidrn Member

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    Since no one has waded in that is currently following the Bobs Red Mill Potato starch protocol, thought I would mention I have been doing this for more than 4 months. I add it to a cold smoothie each morning, have been at the suggested 4 TBSP/day level for > 3 months. I have multiple medical issues, Rheumatoid Arthritis, Hypothyroidism, Metabolic Syndrome, and why I am here, low T. So, I may not be a good N=1, but I have found it has joined with my almost 2 years of Gluten Free diet in helping with my RA Flares. Prior years I had 3 to 5 flares a year, it is approaching 18 months since the last one that required Prednisone to control. The preferred word is Fartage, and the belief can be either way, a good or bad thing, health wise. As a PreBiotic, if you start with the gas, it may be that you do not have enough bacteria, may be the correct answer. I have not had gas in months, Kefitr is frequently used with it. Myself, I drink Raw milk in my smoothies, so am getting the same amount of ProBiotics as those using NonPasteurized Kefir.
    It has helped with my A1C, went from 5.8 to 4.9 over past few months, might be the reason, who knows.The suggestion to read Richard and Tater tots postings at Feed The Animal will give you plenty of data.
     
  11. JanSz

    JanSz Well-Known Member

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    A1C, went from 5.8 to 4.9 over past few months,

    That is worth few farts.

    How bad are those farts, loud and smelly?
    Are you still able to go to bar or dancing club or church?
    ------------------------

    Rheumatoid Arthritis--------------> inflammation.


    If it bothers you enough, consider good Fatty Acids Analysis.

    Bad Fatty Acids are the major reason for inflammation.


    http://www.bodybio-wellness.com/report-blood-test.html



    BodyBio Wellness Report
    BodyBio Professional Report (Doctor's Report)
    BodyBio Fatty Acid Report (Doctor's Report)



    ///
     
  12. xks201

    xks201 Active Member

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    The people I talked to had constant flatulence but persisted on the starch. Apparently they work at a sewer plant. I could not get away with farting all day.
     
  13. hebsie

    hebsie Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    ...posted yesterday over at MDA


    Originally Posted by tatertot
    Not a silly question AT ALL, and we have been trying to establish some benchmarks and metrics for exactly this. For someone with clear gut problems, the benchmarks are easier--a return to normal of all gut-related issues, ie. auto-immune markers, ibs symptoms, GERD symptoms, etc... and if they do not improve rapidly, then further interventions with probiotics are needed along with detailed stool samples to determine pathogens and overgrowths that need to be dealt with.

    For the average Joe, like you and I, just wanting healthier guts, it's more like 'expect nothing and see what happens' when you add in RS. If you experience heartburn, excessive flatulence, headaches, joint pain, or anything unexpected you may have had problems you didn't realize you had, in which case these symptoms may end up being good in that it uncovered a problem, or you are just not hosting the right microbes in which case some probiotic support from fermented foods and/or supplements may help establish the needed populations.

    But if you have a healthy gut and a somewhat diverse microbial population, adding in 20-40g of RS may do absolutely nothing that is outright obvious, sort of like taking Vitamin D or walking 3 miles a day. You know it's good for you, sometimes that just has to be enough. The proof that you are helping yourself may not be outwardly evident, but it sets the stage for your health in the future.

    I've talked to a lot of people that were discouraged by excess fartage even several months after starting. Usually I recommend cutting intake in half for a couple weeks and just see what happens. Usually, farts go away when you hit a certain level. at that point you can just play around with it. Try adding a tsp of inulin or psyllium husk powder to a lowered dose.

    I haven't had farts at all for nearly a year despite an intake of probably 60-80g of RS thru food and starches, but recently I added inulin, glucomannan, and Larch AG just to see what the effect would be. I almost immediately started getting super gaseous and lots of "#2". After a couple weeks, everything is all back to normal, maybe a bit more stool bulk than I'm comfortable with, but no noxious fumes or bloating.

    Another thing on the gas issue. If the gas is non-toxic smell wise, it's a good sign. If you are clearing entire wings of buildings it's a definite sign of missing bacteria.
     
  14. JanSz

    JanSz Well-Known Member

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    http://www.allthingsmale.com/forum/...-a-whole-slew-of-problems&p=221425#post221425


    http://perfecthealthdiet.com/the-diet/




    [​IMG]



    We recommend:

    About 3 pounds [1.4 kg] of plant foods per day, including:
    About 1 pound [0.45 kg] of safe starches, such as white rice, potatoes, sweet potatoes, and taro;
    About 1 pound [0.45 kg] of sugary in-ground vegetables (such as beets or carrots), fruits, and berries;
    Low-calorie vegetables to taste, including fermented vegetables and green leafy vegetables.

    One-half to one pound [0.25 to 0.5 kg] per day of meat or fish, which should include organ meats, and should be drawn primarily from:
    ruminants (beef, lamb, goat);
    birds (especially duck and wild or naturally raised birds);
    Shellfish and freshwater and marine fish.

    Low omega-6 fats and oils from animal or tropical plant sources, to taste. Good sources include:
    butter, sour cream, beef tallow, duck fat;
    coconut milk or oil
    palm oil, palm kernel oil, olive oil, avocado oil, macadamia nut butter, almond butter, cashew butter

    Acids to taste, especially citric acid (lemon juice, lime juice, orange juice, grapefruit juice), lactic acid from fermented or pickled vegetables, vinegars, tannic acids from wine, and tomatoes.
    Broths or stocks made from animal bones and joints.
    Snacks or desserts from our pleasure foods: fruits and berries, nuts, alcohol, chocolate, cream, and fructose-free sweeteners like dextrose or rice syrup.


    By weight, the diet works out to about 3/4 plant foods, 1/4 animal foods. By calories, it works out to about 600 carb calories, primarily from starches; around 300 protein calories; and fats supply a majority (50-60%) of daily calories.


    In the shadow of the apple are foods forbidden because of their high toxin content. Notably:

    Do not eat cereal grains — wheat, barley, oats, corn — or foods made from them — bread, pasta, breakfast cereals, oatmeal. The exception is white rice, which we count among our “safe starches.” Rice noodles, rice crackers, and the like are fine, as are gluten-free foods made from a mix of rice flour, potato starch, and tapioca starch.
    Do not eat calorie-rich legumes. Peas and green beans are fine. Soy and peanuts should be absolutely excluded. Beans might be acceptable with suitable preparation, but we recommend avoiding them.
    Do not eat foods with added sugar or high-fructose corn syrup. Do not drink anything that contains sugar: healthy drinks are water, tea, and coffee.
    Polyunsaturated fats should be a small fraction of the diet (~4% of total calories). To achieve this, do not eat seed oils such as soybean oil, corn oil, safflower oil, sunflower oil, canola oil, or the like.


    We highly recommend certain foods for their micronutrients. These include liver, kidney, egg yolks, seaweeds, shellfish, fermented vegetables, and bone broths.

    We also recommend augmenting the diet with certain supplements. See our Supplement Recommendations page. These nutrients are deficient in modern diets due to removal of minerals from drinking water by treatment, depletion of minerals from soil by agriculture, or modern lifestyles that deprive us of vitamin D by indoor living.

    We recommend tweaking the diet for certain diseases. Neurological disorders often benefit from a diet that is ketogenic; other conditions may benefit from lower carb diets. These variations are discussed in the book:


    http://www.amazon.com/dp/145169914X...refURL=http://perfecthealthdiet.com/the-diet/


    [​IMG]



    .

    .
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2014
  15. JanSz

    JanSz Well-Known Member

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    Hi giskard;

    Would you mind sharing details of how you have accomplished that.

    Since I found dr Kruse I try to follow Epi-Paleo-Rx.
    So I came to this board with
    Glucose, fasting(80-90)
    HgA1c(5.6)
    Insulin,fasting=(2-3)

    after about 2 years on Epi-Paleo-Rx
    Glucose, fasting(95-100)
    HgA1c(5.5)
    Insulin,fasting=(2-3)

    Some things are right, other are not.

    Biggest change from my previous diet to Epi-Paleo-Rx was
    removal of most of remaining carbs
    increase on fat
    some animal proteins replaced with seafood

    --------------
    I think the problem is with carbohydrates.
    Carbohydrates is a name that accompasses to large variety of foods.
    I see need to divide carbohydrate into more categories, not only high or low GI or nightshades.
    Some carbohydrates are eaten by us (people)
    other carbohydrates are eaten by our friendly bacteria (so they can multiply and prosper).
    I see very little being said about all this. I guess this is the source of my problem.
    --------------
    I eat lots of oysters
    oysters
    carbs-23%
    Fats-33%
    Protein-44%

    What type carbohydrates are in oysters?
    ---------------

    Anyhow, please share your details to your success.


    //

    [​IMG]
















     
  16. JanSz

    JanSz Well-Known Member

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  17. torrential

    torrential Member

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    JanSz,

    A year ago when Free The Animal introduced us to RS, Amazon offered BRM via the Subscribe and Save program for under $10.00 for a box of four with free shipping. That lasted for about six months. Amazon ran out, did not renew, and only "other sellers" offer it now. These days I can find it from other well known health and supplement oriented sites for around $2.50 to $3.50 per bag. A quick search shows that Vitacost is currently running sale. Grocery stores also carry it but usually at a higher price.

    Quick update: The sale at Vitacost is relevant @$2.71 per bag and an additional 10% discount for "save and set." I'm going to stock up.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2014
  18. JanSz

    JanSz Well-Known Member

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    I just hope that the resistant starch is the silver bullet I expect it to be.
    May be I heard the term resistant starch before, but it got on my radar screen only very recently.
    I am really sorry for that, because I likely needlessly have spend lots of $$ on supplements that are supposed to help lower fasting glucose, that also includes metformin.

    Additionally, I started on (GHRH+GHRP) other than expected good things, one can expect some insulin resistance out of that.
    Lets hope resistant starch actually works for me as advertised.
    -----------------------------

    I still need to spend more time on this, but right away I have a question.

    Unmodified potato starch is really (I think) starch taken out of potatoes with out heat.
    So, instead of looking around for this starch it should be ok to eat couple of raw potatoes.
    Or, juice potatoes, and drink juice?

    I have not tried that, have anyone done that?

    --------------------

    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    The other question.
    Back then, on my parents farm in Poland we would eat beans.
    Latter on we would get gassy. No particular smell, just lots of hot air.
    When I eat beans in USA, not only prepared and in cans, but also dry beans, that I have to soak and cook, there is no gas.
    Those seeds must have been pre-processed.
    Any comments?



    ///
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2014
  19. hebsie

    hebsie Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    ...question and answer from here --> What do the other prebiotics do?

    In retrospect, this is where talk of RS should have landed--as a prebiotic. That's ALL it is. There are others, just not many.

    Sorely missing from our diet are the prebiotics—the stuff that feeds the elite gut bugs that convey the greatest health benefits. The two main sources of prebiotic fiber come from plants that stockpile their own food in the forms of inulin and resistant starch.

    Inulin is found in fairly high amounts in foods such as raw leeks, asparagus, chicory, Jerusalem artichokes, garlic, onions, and soybeans. Many of these foods are not tolerated in large amounts and therefore self-limiting in the normal food intake. Another source of prebiotics, known as resistant starches, are found in raw potatoes, green bananas, as well as cooked and cooled potatoes, rice, whole grains, and legumes. Still more prebiotic fibers are found in tiny amounts in most fruits (pectins) and seeds (mucilages and gums). As you can quickly see, this list of foods is not well represented in most people’s diet and some effort is required to ensure an adequate intake of fiber and prebiotics.

    A well-fed gut, furnished adequate amounts of fiber, both prebiotic and other, is associated with the following health benefits:

    Protection from cardiovascular disease
    Type 2 Diabetes and Glycemic Control
    Laxation and Regularity
    Appetite Control
    Body Weight
    Reduced Risk of Cancer
    Gut Barrier Function
    Immunity
    Reduction of Pathogens
    Enhanced Short Chain Fatty Acid Production

    Commercially prepared prebiotic supplements can be obtained in four ways: Direct extraction, controlled hydrolysis, transglycosylation, and chemical processes. Though prebiotics, in theory, are extractable directly from plants, this method is rarely used in favor of chemically modifying the leftovers from other food manufacturing processes. Most prebiotic supplements are a conglomeration of plant fibers and monosaccharides, polysaccharides, and disaccharides. Further processing removes the mono, poly, and disaccharides, leaving only the oligosaccharides which are dried to a powder and sold as prebiotics.

    Directly extracted - Resistant starch, inulin, soybean oligosaccharides (OS)
    Controlled hydrolysis - Fructooligosaccharides (FOS) from inulin, Xylo OS
    Transglycosylation - FOS from sucrose, Galacto OS from lactose+sucrose
    Chemical Process - Lactitol from hydrogenated lactose

    Some plant matter, and even some animal matter, ends up getting fermented in the gut, but it doesn't all end up being turned into butyrate or promoting the growth of two key microbes (bifidobacteria and lactobacillus), the end-result of prebiotics. To be called a prebiotic, it must promote the growth of those two key gut bugs. Their presence indicates a healthy gut with optimal pH and butyrate, the two main components of a healthy gut.

    In the average US diet, people are getting less than 10g/day of RS and inulin-like prebiotics, and nearly all of that comes from wheat. Take wheat away, and we are left with next to nothing in terms of prebiotics.

    Estimates on ancestral levels of prebiotics are as high as 130g+ per day from examining old poop. Estimates on the amount needed to optimally fuel a modern gut, producing the butyrate needed to feed colonocytes, is 80g/day. That seems like a lot, but much of that gets there on other ways.

    As someone said earlier, nearly everything we eat has indigestible properties and turns to SCFA. That's true, it does. and this is where most people get the butyrate they have from. But, inulin, RS, and the other prebiotics have another property, they get broken down into smaller components that feed many different gut bugs and produce many different compounds, AND contribute to the butyrate requirement.

    Most people, without thinking, get 20-40g/day of fermentable 'stuff' that turns into butyrate, but less than 10g/day of prebiotic fibers. See the problem? We minimally fuel colonocytes, but completely miss feeding gut bugs that regulate pH and allow key 'Probiotics' to grow.

    So, the answer? Where do we get the prebiotics we need to feed probiotics and provide ample butyrate to completely flood the large intestine?

    Inulin-rich and RS-rich foods or prebiotic supplements.

    Good luck getting more than 10g/day in inulin from foods! Inulin supplements are available and not that expensive. RS can be had in therapeutic doses from raw potato starch, banana flour, etc... but RS rich foods are easily sourced with a bit of tweaking...cooking and cooling rice, potatoes, and beans (which can be reheated). Green bananas, dried plantains, nuts, whole gluten-free grains, etc...

    Here's a diagram of what prebiotics do, and a
    link for everything you could EVER want to know!


    [​IMG]
     
  20. torrential

    torrential Member

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    Jan. Buddy.

    Step back for a moment. Imagine the package of white powder you posted earlier with the words SILVER BULLET printed on the label. Interested? Skeptical? Exactly.

    Read up at FTA and Drbganimalpharm on blogspot. Subscribe to every post and read every Resistance Starch post and comment since the beginning. There is a Resistant Starch tab at the top of the home page. For subscribing, there is a link near the top with an orange icon that says SUBSCRIBE. Click it, do it. This is where it's all happening.

    I will say it one more time: Read up at FTA and Drbganimalpharm on blogspot. These are the worldwide thought leaders for this subject. No, I am not exaggerating. There is a pretty good thread at PhoenixRising, too. RS is interesting and useful but it's not the whole story. I pop my 4T in water almost every night but as part of a larger protocol. As Tatertot always says, potato starch is just an easy way to get RS but food is better. Cooked, cooled, and gently reheated rice, potatoes, properly prepared black and pinto beans, garbanzos, etc.

    Chronic low carb may be an even bigger problem and the root of some autoimmune illnesses. Do you know about the Optimal Diet practitioners? Dead as doornails after 15-20 years on that diet, all from gastro cancers.

    The dramatic decrease in fasting blood glucose is real for many, even T2D's. A T1D reported positive results! But, there are variations. Some of us, myself included, are seeing a rise in FBG after a long period of lowered levels. Richard Nickoley recently mentioned that his was back to 120-ish. He added MORE starch to his meals - not the powder, but potats rice etc. - and it went back down, like there was a metabolic threshold that needed to be attained. There has been some new discussion of the carb metabolism that was lost when we all went low carb. It takes some metabolic adaptation as we try to move to PHD (Jaminet's Perfect Health Diet) levels.

    Just as we have all learned from you over the years here and elsewhere, it's a process and there are many, many components. Just as with test, thy, preg/prog, cort, it take time and sometimes one thing leads to another.

    So: Go ahead and add PS, as per comfort. Any effects are telling and can be used to guide the protocol you develop. See? Just as with all of the hormonal adjustment, symptoms and effects are a great way to learn what's going on and fine tune your own treatment.
     

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