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Resistant Starch

Discussion in 'Diet & Nutrition' started by JanSz, Mar 11, 2014.

  1. BadassBlues

    BadassBlues Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I'm thinking smoothie, green banana, kale, Greek yogurt and blueberries.
     
  2. JanSz

    JanSz Well-Known Member

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    German potato salad and green banana are in my future.

    Today I have learned that I am ok with unmodified potato starch,
    but unmodified potato starch plus quart of milk is different story.


    //
     
  3. hebsie

    hebsie Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    ...haha, sounds nasty just reading it!!!!!!!!!

    Regarding green bananas, one store I have to ask for them, the other has a small section near the plantains where they keep the green, 'cooking' bananas. When you get them home, separating them from the bunch, and if you want to take the time, also wrapping the exposed stems (with a little Saran Wrap) will slow the ripening process.

    ...Kale is high in inulin, which makes it a great pre-biotic (also good are asparagus, dandelion greens & Jerusalem artichokes)

    Richard from FTA posted his gut-friendly smoothy a little while back. But that was a few months ago I believe. Things (regarding RS) seem to evolving daily (as more and more people get on board, more research is done, etc.....)

    I'd like to get a shake going that DIDN'T use dairy as a base. Perhaps coconut milk would work, but then what to use for protein? Eggs?? What else???
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2014
  4. cpeil2

    cpeil2 Active Member

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    What?!?! German potato salad is food of the gods. I'm talking about potato salad made the way Germans make it - not American (and probably Canadian)-style German potato salad. None of that gloppy sweet bacon dressing like the American version has. All it has in it is cooked potatoes, white vinegar and oil. You cook the potatoes, let them cool, pour a little boiling water over them and put in the oil and vinegar - fabulous.
     
  5. hebsie

    hebsie Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    ...no, no. The potato salad is GREAT! What I was calling nasty was "Today I have learned that I am ok with unmodified potato starch,
    but unmodified potato starch plus quart of milk is different story.
    "

    Sounds like a bad case of cramps to me, cramps with maybe a side of the diarrhea to go with :ack2:
     
  6. JanSz

    JanSz Well-Known Member

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    Ok, lets narrow it down. Please clarify.

    ---------------------------------------------------------
    cooked=peeled or unpeeled potatoes of approx size of 1"-1.5" cubes,
    in the pot, covered with cold water,
    salt
    heated till boiled,
    boiled approx 30 min until fork tender

    For salad potatoes are left on harder side
    for mash potatoes they can be cooked more


    ---------------------------------------------------------

    potatoes can also be baked

    what about baked potatoes?
    what about mashed potatoes?

    when hot---->starch is digestible
    when cold---->starch become resistant (right??)


    ////
     
  7. cpeil2

    cpeil2 Active Member

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    Dicing them is more common on this side of the pond, I think. Europeans tend to cut the potato in half lengthwise and then into fairly thick slices - 1/4 inch or so. The slices will cook faster than the dice.

    You could peel them or not. The only time I peel potatoes is when I make mashed. Otherwise, I leave the peels on and eat them. It is said that most of the potassium in a potato is found just beneath the peel.

    Sure, you could use baked potatoes. I have made baked potato salad a couple of times. It was a huge hit at potlucks.

    You know more about resistant starch than I do. I have a box of potato starch in a kitchen cabinet that I use to thicken sauces. Haven't done it yet, but I've been entertaining the idea of adding it to a smoothie.
     
  8. Picton

    Picton Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    This European cooks them in surprisingly large pieces... halved or quartered - slower, but they mash far better that way, as they are drier and they certainly roast better that way too... small pieces means quicker cooking but inevitably means a wetter end result and mashed potatoes this side of the pond are not the gluey "soup" I see on US food programmes further ruined with food processors or Kitchen Aid mixers which break the starch molecules open to produce wallpaper paste! :-(

    The Irish I have met sometimes cook them whole, in skins and then peel after cooking. Driest of all for starchy varieties, but I find that a bit fiddly, I suppose it is one of those things that you probably get culturally "used to"

    When I was eating potatoes regularly I usually ate them with skins, (especially "new" potatoes as opposed to "old" [stored] potatoes which are more starchy) as you say, the best nutrition that way - but traditional dishes call for them to be peeled which is probably the way I have them now as I only eat significant amount of carbs on special occasions, so it is usually traditional dishes!
     
  9. cpeil2

    cpeil2 Active Member

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    I was talking about for salad. For roasting, I cut new potatoes in half. For boiling, I leave new potatoes whole. My mother always used to boil potatoes whole when she cooked them for salad. They took an incredibly long time to cook - 40 min. or so.

    Actually, now that I think about it, that's what I do too, cook them whole for salad, but I think dicing them is too much work. I cut them in half and then into thick horizontal slices. Mashed potatoes are a once a year thing for me - just at Thanksgiving. I put them through a hand-cranked food mill and then whip them with a whisk. Blender and food processor ruin them - they get all gluey.

    But, these days, I don't eat many potatoes - two or three boiled new potatoes once or twice a month.
     
  10. KYinchampaign

    KYinchampaign Member

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    This may be of interest to some that may be considering PS. http://selfhacked.com/2014/02/15/potato-starch-source-resistant-starch/

    A few years back my ENT pulled an allergy test on me that showed I have a food sensitivity to several foods. One being potatoes. Interestingly enough, I really never ate potatoes. I think I'll stick to the green bananas and nuts for now.
     
  11. hebsie

    hebsie Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    ...I agree, as do most at FTA, that food choices are always going to trump the supplemental forms -- with the supplemental being potato starch.

    I myself don't seem to do well with the potato starch either. For me it causes my BS to drop too low. Usually hits me about 4-5hrs post-ingestion where I get this annoying hypoG crash. Mung bean starch doesn't seem to have the same effect, but I don't use much of it. Maybe a tbsp before bed if I haven't had enough real food sources of RS during the day.

    I do best with whole potatoes, green bananas, rice, beans, and/or plantains. Rice and potatoes must be cooked and cooled of course.

    I eat alot of sweet potatoes and carrots too, but I don't think the RS content of either is that high. Same goes for green peas...hebs
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2014
  12. hebsie

    hebsie Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    ...somewhere I just read that the retrograde RS(3) content of potatoes is highest when they're baked versus boiled. For convenience, I'll just bake a 1/2 dozen or so at a time in the toaster oven (if not cooking something in the regular oven that day), then cool, keep them in a fridge, use as desired.

    Reheating is fine, but what I really enjoy is dicing up a cold tater, tossing on a couple big scoops of 2% Greek yogurt, a couple of chopped up raw green onions (which is a good prebiotic I might add), and then some sea salt and ground black pepper to taste. Makes a nice and easy 4PM snack!
     
  13. hebsie

    hebsie Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    ....regarding plantains. I find them disgusting raw, but if you peel, slice, layer them on a cooling rake (like you'd use for cooling cookies), then let them 'air' dry in the fridge for a day or two. They actually become quite palatable, even mildly addictive!

    Also, I just did a batch in the freezer last night and that worked well too. They 'freeze-dried' in about an hour. Were maybe a 'tad' bit hard to eat direct out of the freezer, but that had it's merits too, as it slowed down the eating for me!
     
  14. hebsie

    hebsie Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Hey Kirk...that guy that made that blog post. Hmmm, have you watched the video of his 'bedroom/lab'???? :willy_nilly:

    At 5:14 when he's discussing his dirty protein shake container, I quote "I never wash this to save time. I just put it in the fridge so bacteria doesn't grow..." :troll:

    Before I say anything bad, that's not you is it??? :crying:
     
  15. JanSz

    JanSz Well-Known Member

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    In resistant starch context, what it means cooled?

    It is not straight from the oven or boiling pot.

    But is it room temperature (~70F)
    is it from refrigerator, 15 min on the plate (~60F)
    is it from refrigerator to plate eaten right away (~45F)
    is it even colder?



    ////
    Or possibly it is baked potato like in restaurant (was from the oven 15 min ago), then sitting on the plate another 10 min, opened, diced, mixed with 2tbsp cold butter and 3 heaping tbsp of sour cream and chopped up raw green onions (by then mix is likely room temperature or less), then chased with 12-16 oz steak medium raw (mostly pink) and 3 beers?



    /////

    Are we getting any closer to real life?


    ///
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2014
  16. cpeil2

    cpeil2 Active Member

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    For no particular reason, I assumed that "cooled" meant room temperature or thereabout. I would call potato that had been refrigerated "chilled".
     
  17. BadassBlues

    BadassBlues Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Raw potato 25 g of RS per 100g
    Cooked potato 2-5g per 100g
    Cooked and chilled potato 5-10g per 100

    Green bananas seem a much better choice. Also, dried plantain chips. I love plantains, I make tostonis quite often, although I doubt frying them in olive oil would be a good way to preserve the RS. You can make dehydrated plantain chips easy enough though.
     
  18. davidrn

    davidrn Member

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    I don't a have a link, but read info about Freezing RS foods after preparing, then after defrosted, the RS was increased.
    Might work well if you premade a 3 bean salad, then froze it a week before a picnic, or for personal use.
     
  19. JanSz

    JanSz Well-Known Member

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    So what resistant starch is doing for us?

    Better gut flora and lower fasting glucose?
    Anything else? Lower insulin?

    All gimmicks with resistant starch are so we can have more butyrate (butter) in our gut (to feed bacteria).

    I would be simple enough to make sure that potatoes come with good load of butter,
    then do blood tests for glucose, A1c & insulin to evaluate progress.

    =============================

    I newer eat plantains, but there is plenty of them in my store.

    Is there painless way to eat them?



    ///
     
  20. hebsie

    hebsie Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    JanSz...no offense, but I think your falling victim to over-analysis here. There is no blood test for RS!!!!

    Eat a hot potato. Eat a cold potato. Eat a green banana, maybe have ripe banana. Have some rice and beans. Make a cold rice and bean salad. Occasional add some raw potato starch (if you so choose). There is no magic number of RS. The target is around 30g/day, but some do better with more. Do what you feel works for you.

    If you want to fancy it up. Think more about eating natural pre-biotics like inulin/FOS, pectin, konjac root, etc...

    If you're having issues with excessive gas, farting, maybe you need to look into some of the recommended pro-biotics until you get a healthy gut population growing.

    If you're having severe issues with excessive gas, farting, pain, whatever, then maybe think about get a Geneva stool test, see what's really happening down there.

    IMO, most would be best served following a basic PHD diet template, and make the recommended safe PHD starches predominately RS sources (like we've mentioned above or that you'll find suggested at FreeTheAnimal)

    PHD --> We recommend:

    About 3 pounds [1.4 kg] of plant foods per day, including:
    About 1 pound [0.45 kg] of safe starches, such as white rice, potatoes, sweet potatoes, and taro;
    About 1 pound [0.45 kg] of sugary in-ground vegetables (such as beets or carrots), fruits, and berries;
    Low-calorie vegetables to taste, including fermented vegetables and green leafy vegetables.
    One-half to one pound [0.25 to 0.5 kg] per day of meat or fish, which should include organ meats, and should be drawn primarily from:
    ruminants (beef, lamb, goat);
    birds (especially duck and wild or naturally raised birds);
    Shellfish and freshwater and marine fish.
    Low omega-6 fats and oils from animal or tropical plant sources, to taste. Good sources include:
    butter, sour cream, beef tallow, duck fat;
    coconut milk or oil
    palm oil, palm kernel oil, olive oil, avocado oil, macadamia nut butter, almond butter, cashew butter
    Acids to taste, especially citric acid (lemon juice, lime juice, orange juice, grapefruit juice), lactic acid from fermented or pickled vegetables, vinegars, tannic acids from wine, and tomatoes.
    Broths or stocks made from animal bones and joints.
    Snacks or desserts from our pleasure foods: fruits and berries, nuts, alcohol, chocolate, cream, and fructose-free sweeteners like dextrose or rice syrup.

    By weight, the diet works out to about 3/4 plant foods, 1/4 animal foods. By calories, it works out to about 600 carb calories, primarily from starches; around 300 protein calories; and fats supply a majority (50-60%) of daily calories.

    In the shadow of the apple are foods forbidden because of their high toxin content. Notably:

    Do not eat cereal grains — wheat, barley, oats, corn — or foods made from them — bread, pasta, breakfast cereals, oatmeal. The exception is white rice, which we count among our “safe starches.” Rice noodles, rice crackers, and the like are fine, as are gluten-free foods made from a mix of rice flour, potato starch, and tapioca starch.
    Do not eat calorie-rich legumes. Peas and green beans are fine. Soy and peanuts should be absolutely excluded. Beans might be acceptable with suitable preparation, but we recommend avoiding them.
    Do not eat foods with added sugar or high-fructose corn syrup. Do not drink anything that contains sugar: healthy drinks are water, tea, and coffee.
    Polyunsaturated fats should be a small fraction of the diet (~4% of total calories). To achieve this, do not eat seed oils such as soybean oil, corn oil, safflower oil, sunflower oil, canola oil, or the like.

    We highly recommend certain foods for their micronutrients. These include liver, kidney, egg yolks, seaweeds, shellfish, fermented vegetables, and bone broths.
     

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