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Some guys report switching to SC from IM made them worse

Discussion in 'Random Thoughts from Dr. John' started by Dr. John Crisler, Jan 2, 2015.

  1. Dr. John Crisler

    Dr. John Crisler Lord of the Forum Staff Member Super Moderator

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    The next question in that case would be how long they gave it a try.

    The way you feel is often the result of what direction your serum levels are going. I have no proof of this--which means there may be some out there; I just have not seen it yet--but the absorption may be slowed a bit when going from IM to SC. That means you may feel it, at first.

    But it, over a few weeks, it catches up again, and subjective response returns, and most often exceeds, that previously from IM technique.

    So if they only gave it as week or so (and guys can be SO fickle about these things LOL), it may not have qualified as a valid trial.

    Just thinking out loud here.

    Anyone heard anything along these lines on other Boards?
     
  2. simon1972

    simon1972 New Member

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    No experience here with Im to subq , but for the dake of comparson I went from daily 150mg/ml daily transdermal cream to a biweekly 75mg per shot of test E and felt better on creams. Also noticed my scalp was constantly oily on creams, now I'm rarely experiencing that side.
     
  3. Youthful55Guy

    Youthful55Guy Member

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    I switched from E3D IM to daily SQ about 7 weeks ago. Same overall weekly amount, just split to daily SQ doses. I haven't felt any difference. My hope is to keep peak levels down so there is less conversion to E2 and DHT.
     
  4. drpepper68

    drpepper68 New Member

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    I didn't feel much difference from IM to sub-q but I have high SHBG. I like the convenience of once a week shots, especially when going on vacation.

    I'm thinking of trying creams again but I have high DHT so will that make it worse? My E2 is 32 wo using HCG for the week of the test. My libido is low always no matter what my T level is. Very frustrating and kinda makes me want to give up doing TRT all together. Been considering GH since my energy is always tanked but I'm also a diabetic.
     
  5. Andrew

    Andrew Member

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    I can tell you I've noticed a substantial drop in E2 conversion switching from IM to SC. It just doesn't seem to hit so hard if that makes any sense. Doing 1/2cc(100mg) of cyp used to hit me like a train the folowing day if I failed to take my Arimidex. I've broken the dosing into 50mg SC EOD and it seems a lot easier to follow a Arimidex protocol where as before I would do a lot of guessing/trial and error regarding how much to take. Its a relief to say the least.
     
  6. Dr. John Crisler

    Dr. John Crisler Lord of the Forum Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I've had a number of patients tell me that.
     
  7. mrobe57

    mrobe57 New Member

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    I switched from Im to subq about six weeks ago. I went from 140mg of testosterone IM once a week to 70mg of testosterone every 3.5 days subq. On injection days about 12 hours after the injection I get what feels like an adrenaline rush where the back of my arms and legs get hot, I feel amped up and anxiety takes over for about eight hours. Is this t converting to e2? I'm not sure I can stand the anxiety. Should I go back to IM or will this pass.
     
  8. Dr. John Crisler

    Dr. John Crisler Lord of the Forum Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Something else must be going on. You decreased the size of your dose by a half, so it wouldn't be a reaction to either too much androgen or estrogen.
     
  9. Bill-NJ

    Bill-NJ Sargeant-at-Arms

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    Interesting I have been Subq for close to 10 years and only AI I have ever used is a product called Myomin .... Definitely took some time to feel good but following a consistent program and monitoring labs have made 1 hell of a pleasant journey
     
  10. Dr. John Crisler

    Dr. John Crisler Lord of the Forum Staff Member Super Moderator

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    The pharmokodynamics work out that levels (and response) can drop at first. But then they pick back up, and surpass what was going on with IM injections.
     
  11. electrify

    electrify Member

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  12. Dr. John Crisler

    Dr. John Crisler Lord of the Forum Staff Member Super Moderator

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  13. drpepper68

    drpepper68 New Member

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    If you have high SHBG (71) is weekly IM better?
     
  14. Dr. John Crisler

    Dr. John Crisler Lord of the Forum Staff Member Super Moderator

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    USUALLY, as the same weekly dose can than get over the top of the higher SHBG, and leave enough that is Free.

    But--as always--everybody is different. You just have to try and see what works best for you.
     
  15. DragonRider

    DragonRider Member

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    Blood tests showed no difference for me, but I am not prescribed HCG or an antiestrogen, so even splitting the shots my estradiol runs in the mid 60's. The thing is, I have ordered my own anti e's (anastrozole and exemestane) and within 2 to 3 weeks of using them I'm urinating blood clots from my kidneys. A little off topic, but I don't notice any difference between IM and subQ.
     
  16. louidoui

    louidoui Member

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    I’m pretty new to trt, but I just made the switch from IM to Subcutaneous and the results thus far have been astounding for me. I was Originally on twice a week IM, and even with different arimidex dosing I never felt right. When i made the switch to EOD subcutaneous, I’m like a new man. no estradiol spikes anymore, and I feel consistently good all the time
     

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