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Testosterone Suppositories

Discussion in 'Male Health & HRT' started by James, Dec 28, 2009.

  1. James

    James Guest

    This is my first post to this remarkable web site. It's almost like a secret club. I know the following topic was touched upon recently, but it didn't go in the direction that I was hoping. Therefore, I present it again.

    I am 62 and have been doing weekly intramuscular injections for 9 months under Dr Cryslers care. Awhile ago I listened to his April 22rd, 2009 lecture,

    http://progressive.uvault.com/pd1005/A4M091/WKS3/02Crisler/player.HTM

    and became aware, for the first time, that there is yet another possible route of entry for T into the body. I was aware of the standard 5 routes of entry: oral, IM, topical, pellets and sublingual. Each of these has some positives and also negatives.

    For me, the new route was suppositories. A woman asked Dr Crysler and Dr Mark Gordon about this approach in the question period after the lecture. Both Drs sounded positive in their replies about it.

    Now, I know that there is a percent of our group who feel: "There is no way I would ever stick anything up my butt." I can appreciate that feeling.

    I also know there is another percent who are willing to do whatever it takes. As for me, I would eat stir-fried dog crap if I knew it would help. From my current understanding, suppositories have the highest positives and lowest negatives of any of the 6 routes of entry.

    Positives:
    1) Fast and low "bother" to administer. Similar to oral.
    2) Clean to administer. Similar to oral, but topical not so much. Topical has its negatives in this area, rubbing off etc.
    3) Allows for daily administration. Similar to oral, topical sublingual. The more I learn about the body, the more important it seems to get aligned with its desire for cycling, especially with daily cycling. As Dr Crysler said somewhere, weekly injections give an old-man T pattern.
    4) Doesn't generate DHT. To me this is THE big negative with topical. I have had significant hair loss in the last 9 months with IM (though maybe its stabilized using Dr Crylers Magic Hair Formula). I just wouldn't want to take a chance with topical. There isn't much hair left up there. Dr Gordon said "there is no 5 alpha reductase problem" with suppositories (meaning no additional DHT generated at the point of absorption?).
    5) Accurate dosing. Maybe similar to IM. It's in there and its not going any place (assuming you've worked out your elimination timing). Topical, who knows how much gets lost.
    6) Dr Gordon said the amount of T needed is lower with suppositories, "one quarter to half the amount." He also said "it absorbs incredibly well."
    7) Maybe use pure T, or T plus T cyp, or some other combination.

    Negatives:
    1) Social prejudice about the entry location. To me, this is simply a non-issue. Work it into your daily routine. Pretend like you have hemroids. Get over it.
    2) Timing with your bodies natural elimination cycle. Again to me, this is probably a non-issue. My body is very predictable. What about inserting it upon going to bed. Better yet, in the morning right after the first BM. You probably only need a couple hours for absorption. You could get a couple daily spikes.

    This idea is new and very appealing to me. Is my analysis above accurate? Other questions: Will the rectal mucosa tolerate a daily dose of T? If suppositories are so easy and good, why aren't guys using them. Social prejudice? Are the cells around the insertion point more prone to make DHT? Dr Crysler said that scrotal skin generated 50 times the DHT of regular skin. Maybe a special tool to get the suppository in there cleanly. How deep does it need to be inserted? Etc. I can only find one company making T suppositories, a German company named Funke(?). Not very common.

    I hope we can skip the teenage locker-room silliness and have a serious discussion about this.
     
  2. BigJimcalhoun

    BigJimcalhoun New Member

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    I know that, unfortunately, those involved in illegal dog fighting have been known to use Jalapeno pepper suppositories to light a fire in the dog's ass prior to the event. I have yet to try it to myself, prior to any 5k running event or heavy weight day.

    I also have a detox book that mentioned caffeine enemas and how easily the caffeine is absorbed. People have also died due to the ease of absorbtion of materials into the colon.

    I think more discussion is needed on this.
     
  3. seekonk

    seekonk Active Member

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    Maybe AnewRx could be persuaded to prepare these. They are a compounding pharmacy, after all.

    I would definitely prefer that way with peptides (GHRP-6) if practical. Hate injecting.

    With testosterone, could proximity to the prostate cause problems?
     
  4. Shootist

    Shootist New Member

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    What about a gel of some sort? (Think of preparation H) Either that or a suppository used with some sort of injector would be much more sanitary.
     
  5. seekonk

    seekonk Active Member

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    That may be an advantage if you are interested in reproducing a more physiological pulsatile T rhythm.
     
  6. Bob45

    Bob45 New Member

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    Sounds like a pain in the ass to me.
     
  7. dot1

    dot1 New Member

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    It's interesting one of the good doctors mentioned above have not pursued this further. Maybe a big pharm is testing it now??? People don't need to know you are on HRT most less how you apply it. Once the absorption issue is worked out, the rest should be easy.
     
  8. agoraphobe

    agoraphobe New Member

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    I would guess they have enough problems with patient compliance and getting guys going and probably assume there just isn't any real interest among a bunch of guys who want their machismo back in putting a finger up their ass. but it sounds like there may be a minority of patients who are so serious about their treatment they are interested in it if it has advantages.
     
  9. James

    James Guest

    "Originally Posted by monomer
    The T would be metabolized quickly which means you would be doing these a minimum of once a day (maybe more?)."

    Yes, at least once a day. I want the spike in the morning and then a baseline from then on. That's why maybe a mixture of T and T cyp. Wouldn't the T cyp keep things going for 24 hours?

    "Originally Posted by seekonk
    That may be an advantage if you are interested in reproducing a more physiological pulsatile T rhythm."

    Yes, that is half the reason for my interest in suppositories. The other half is to reduce DHT at the point of entry. Well, actually another reason would be to get away from shots. I don't mind giving shots to myself but since I'm probably looking at T replacement for many years to come, I would like to avoid what must be some trauma to the tissue. Now if they were just shallow subcutaneous shots that would less concern, but Dr Crysler says that T must be deep muscle shots.

    "Originally Posted by seekonk
    With testosterone, could proximity to the prostate cause problems?"

    Yes, a good question.

    As part of Dr Gordons response to this question in the lecture, he said he doesn't use gels. It makes me wonder if he might be using suppositories for some of his patients.

    Dr Crysler, if you're reading this, I would really like to hear your thoughts on this.
     
  10. TESTOCULES

    TESTOCULES New Member

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    Crisler, not Crysler.
     
  11. cpeil2

    cpeil2 Active Member

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    Did he mean that he just doesn't use gels or that he doesn't use transdermals at all?

    There are simple ethanol-based gels, liposomal gels and there are transdermals that don't use a gel at all, using various types of cream instead. Each has different absorption characteristics.


    I'm not positive, but I think ANewRx uses a liposomal gel and I like it. I have also used ethanol-based gels and creams. Of those, I didn't much like the ethanol gel. I have never used a cream formulation that I didn't like.
     
  12. Bulldog

    Bulldog Administrator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I believe he said he does not use transdermals at all, only injections.
     
  13. cpeil2

    cpeil2 Active Member

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    If you google "testosterone suppository" you will find many mentions of them and many links to references that discuss them. So, they certainly aren't unknown. In fact, in Europe, they seem to be readily available.
     
  14. James

    James Guest

    Dr Crisler, please forgive me for misspelling your name. Totally inattentive on my part. This got going with me long ago on auto-spell-pilot and just stuck. Testocules, thankyou for the correction.

    I just listened to the part in the lecture where Dr Gordon responded to the question. If I have transcribed it correctly this is what he said:

    Question: "Have you tried using the transdermal gel or cream rectally for transmucosal and..... are you going to talk about that?"

    Dr Gordon: "No. It works. I love... No, it wasn't a joke, I know you thought it was. I don't use topicals, period. I use vaginal for women. And for my individuals...uhm... that don't mind putting the preparation rectally, it absorbs incredibally well and you don't have the 5 alpha reductase problem that you do on the surface. That's the reason vaginally too, also. The amount we can get by of estrogen, progestrone and testosterone topically, vaginally is a quarter the amount or half the amount."

    In this Dr Gordon clearly states "I don't use topicals, period." It is also clear from this that he is using rectal for some of his patients.
     
  15. TESTOCULES

    TESTOCULES New Member

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    TESTOCULES, not testocules.


    jk
     
  16. JanSz

    JanSz Active Member

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    In 1976 study, I see 20mg/day, 40mg/day and (20+40)mg/day doses being tried using testosterone suppository.

    http://www.reproduction-online.org/cgi/reprint/47/1/119.pdf
    ================

    Not sure how to get about getting suppositories.

    It appears that expected absorption should be such that daily dose in the range of 2x of injectable dose should work.

    I am using 175mg/week injectable testosterone.

    Converting to rectal system I would probably need 2x175=350mg/week
    that is 50mg/day

    I expect testosterone cypionate or enanthate acceptable for rectal use.
    No need for suppositories.

    One could use this syringes:

    BD Ultrafine II U-100 Insulin Syringe 31 Gauge 3/10cc 5/16inch Short Needle

    One syringe to draw Testosterone cypionate into syringe.

    Second syringe, with completely cutout needle
    to be used for anal implantation of testosterone.

    Anal testosterone implantation could be done tight before bed time,
    or in other time when bowel movement is not expected for few hours.


    Do blood test 2 months after strting on this procedure,
    adjust dose per goals.

    My goal
    BAT~575 on test from Quest

    .....
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2009
  17. thelordhumungus

    thelordhumungus New Member

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    Let me just make sure I've got this straight, we're talking about squirting liquid testosterone into the anus to avoid shots/gel?

    I'm not a big fan of needles either but that just seems to take the whole thing up a notch.
     
  18. James

    James Guest

    JanSz,
    You said "Converting to rectal system I would probably need 2x175=350mg/week that is 50mg/day"

    Dr Gordon said he was using only one quarter to half as much as topical. Could you share your thinking on needing a larger amount for rectal. Perhaps it's because we're talking here about three different entry routes, listed in order of efficiency: IM, rectal and topical?
     
  19. JanSz

    JanSz Active Member

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    Just to get a feel of it.

    Take this small syringe,
    cut out needle,
    suck it in full of olive oil
    insert syringe into anus to the hilt, (2 3/8" long),
    push on plunger.

    All it is just a couple of drops of oil.

    No need to make a big deal, suppositories and all.
    =========================

    Problem may be in $$, if someone have to pay $150 per 10mL vial, like I did until recently.
    Now I pay $15 for two vials, could use anus if I would have to.

    .
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2009
  20. Bulldog

    Bulldog Administrator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I was wondering this also.

    Wouldn't you still need some type of transdermal or liposomal compound to deliver the testosterone?

    Also, for this type of delivery wouldn't you just use raw testosterone rather than one that is bound to an ester such as Test Cyp? It seems like the longer action of Test Cyp would somewhat take away the advantage of daily delivery and the more natural cyclical action we are looking for.
     

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