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Why even mention PDE5 inhibitors in this forum?

Discussion in 'Male Health & HRT' started by TopGeek, Jun 27, 2011.

  1. TopGeek

    TopGeek Active Member

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    They are a 'quick fix' short-term solution and provide no clue as to the reason for the existence of ED . We would not be here searching for a more permanent solution if we thought Viagra, Cialis, Levitra, etc., was all that's needed. They have unpleasant side-effects for most users and even the risk of eyesight damage.
    Adding a PDE5 inhibitor to a hormonal adjustment programme can only confuse the results - use one or the other but not both.
     
  2. Colin297

    Colin297 New Member

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    Because they can be useful, help give symptomatic relief and even help encourage an improvement of ED by encouraging natural blood flow (apparently) over time.

    The reasons for ED are pretty complicated it could take you many years to nail it, afterall. Pardon the pun.
     
  3. silverwing

    silverwing Member

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    I feel the same way as colin..
    I have used Cialis for over two years now..daily..I have had a cardiac workup( they found nothing).. and am on TRT.. but I still had problem with ED.. great libido though..and feel good overall..
    so for me, since I have slightly elevated BP.. and Cialis manages that too on the low dose daily.. I take it every day.. I usually have daily sex with my wife.. so this is a win win for both of us.
     
  4. TopGeek

    TopGeek Active Member

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    Yes they give symptomatic relief but i'm not convinced about them improving natural blood flow and erection. In fact, I think they're more likely to create dependency. Yes, the reasons for ED can be complex but I can't see how PDE5 inhibitors are going to help find an answer. More likely they will help to conceal it.
     
  5. TopGeek

    TopGeek Active Member

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    I used Viagra for about 3 years, Cialis for about 4 years and then developed sudden loss of vision in one eye which was suspected to be due to the Cialis. I was advised to never use it again. Since then, I have had a second attack in the other eye, which the ophthalmologists say is proof that it was caused by the Cialis.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2011
  6. JanSz

    JanSz Well-Known Member

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    It would be real nice to be able to just fix hormones and get back erections.

    In my case I do not see it happening.

    When my hormones are adjusted relatively well
    then
    Cialis does the work.

    Cialis is not helping when hormones are too far out of range.

    My testosterone is rather rock steady,
    but one newer know where is E2 is.

    Recently I added DHEA and lost my erections.
    I did not want to stop using DHEA, so I added Arimidex, erections came back.


    /////////

    Sorry for your vision problems.

    ///////////

    Other than the old 20mg Cialis, there is new 5mg.
    It is meant to be used daily.

    Phil is using it daily on dr advice, it opens veins, makes blood flow easy.

    I cut 20mg pills into 3 pieces, take one each day.



    ...
     
  7. Bond

    Bond Banned

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    Maybe so, but getting your hormones sorted out can be a long and frustrating process- and not just for you if you have a wife or girlfriend.

    Using it from time to time to get it on with yo' lady, particularly if her patience and understanding is growing thin from being so patient and understanding for so long, can keep other, equally important things from getting confusing.
     
  8. pmgamer18

    pmgamer18 Prince of the Forums

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    Same thing for me when I found out why I had ED after needing to use a penis pump and ring to have sex for about 10 yrs. I found out my ED and trouble having an Orgasm were all due to high levels of Estradiol E2. When I got this down taking Arimidex I got my Rem Sleep wood back and did not need the pump and ring for sex.

    But the worrying about it staying up at times was killing it so my Dr. put me on Cialis when it first came out 20 mgs every 3 days. I had some sides in the first week but they stopped after this and I did not lose my wood from worry anymore.

    This works great now I am on Cialis 5 mgs everyday for my heart and BP levels by my Heart Dr. And my Health care plain payed for Cialis but not anymore I got a letter they no longer cover this for any reason. So I have a lot left over enough to last me the rest of the yr. They are 20 mgs tabs and I cut them into 3 parts and take one / day.

    For me it was high E2 levels giving my ED problems for a good 10 yrs on TRT and back then no one know it would do this to man.

    To day to help with my Wood I us 15 mgs of Preg. TD in the morning and 6 to 10 mgs. of Prog. TD at bedtime. Doing this helps keep my libido up very high like when I was 20 now 67 and I can keep it up for sex as long as I need it. It is also helping to keep my E2 levels more in line.
     
  9. TopGeek

    TopGeek Active Member

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    The point I'm trying to make is, how can you possibly judge the effects of TRT or other ED treatment if you are on a constant PDE5 inhibitor regime?
     
  10. silverwing

    silverwing Member

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    because I have used JUST TRT and used both TRt and ED drugs..
    I LIKE the way I feel on both and I LIKE having the ability to have daily sex without wondering and worrying if I will stay hard...
     
  11. JanSz

    JanSz Well-Known Member

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    I my case, without TRT or with TRT and high E2, Cialis is not helpful. No sex possible.
    With the best TRT I can muster, my erections are still problematic.

    ..
     
  12. JanSz

    JanSz Well-Known Member

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    I am getting into new territory with my erections.

    Now, with better preg & prog levels I added DHEA.
    Previously DHEA was doing nothing for me, but it also not interfered with my erections.
    Now is different, I think now I am getting high E2.
    I know that because when I used Arimidex, erections returned.
    Previously I was using Arimidex only sporadically.
    Not sure what is in the store for me now.
    I think I may have overdone on Aririmidex, not really sure how to work with it inteligently.

    Week ago, I had a problem, went to LabCorp to check E2, preg, prog
    then
    took Arimidex pill, then next day another pill and then EOD (whole pills)

    They still have not done my labs.

    In the mean time my nightly erections returned, but now I think it is going somewhat down.

    Good question, am I too low, or is E2 getting too high.?


    I do not have any joint pains, people quote when e2 is low.
    .
    ..
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2011
  13. seekonk

    seekonk Active Member

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    You mean proof that it wasn't caused by Cialis (since you had already stopped using it), or am I missing something?
     
  14. seekonk

    seekonk Active Member

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    If you function fine sexually with just a PDE5-inhibitor, then you probably don't need TRT. TRT has more of an impact on desire, not erections, so if your desire is fine, I wouldn't mess with TRT.

    If desire is fine but not erections, then the problem is quite possibly either vascular or psychogenic. In both cases, a PDE5-inhibitor would be a better choice than TRT.

    There have been studies indicating the PDE5-inhibitors may "cure" ED, possibly by increasing the quality of nocturnal erections and improving the vessels in the penis. By "cure" they mean that you can stop taking it after a while and things keep working.
     
  15. TopGeek

    TopGeek Active Member

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    As I have not been able to use Cialis for about the last 4 years, I think I can take a detached view of the situation. I certainly have libido and I desperately want to regain erections. There's no greater frustration than both partners wanting it but the man being unable to perform.
    Androgel restores morning wood but it's too expensive and it shrinks my nuts, which I don't like. While playing with DHEA, mucuna pruriens and Arimidex, I also hit a period of a few days when morning wood came back. I've had an ultrasound check for blood flow and that is apparently OK but then, if medication can restore morning wood, that seems obvious.
    I can't see how it can be psychogenic for the same reason. Natural T boosting is therefore the most desirable option.
    I've never heard that PDE5 inhibitors could 'cure' ED; in fact, quite the opposite. Everything I've read points to long-term use causing dependency.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2011
  16. JanSz

    JanSz Well-Known Member

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    Since you cant use Cialis or Viagra,

    may want to try Kava Kava.
    also note that good level of progesterone is helpful


    see what dr Dzugan say in his book:

    page 144 &145
    progesterone inhibits 5aR, aromatase and stimulate the activity of parasympathetic system, which can lead to release of nitric oxide from the terminal end of axons (nerve fiber that conducts impulses away from the body of the nerve cell). Nitric oxide diffuses into smooth muscle of penile artheries. The artheries relax and blood flow increases into the organ. The spongy erectile tissue of penis fills with blood, which leads to compression of the veins that normally remove blood from penis, and all this results in erection.

    kava root also serves another purpose: it increases activity of the parasymphatetic nervous system, which can result in a release of nitric oxide and vasolidation, in which the blood vessels widen from the interior, thus promoting blood flow.

    ---------------------------------

    kava root extract 250mg


    ---------------------------------
    kava root extract up to 3 months of use only, kava 100-500mg is typical
    ---------------------------------
    Now Foods, Kava Kava Extract 250 mg, 120 Capsules(NOW-04717) $21.66

    ====================

    .
     
  17. cumkwakka

    cumkwakka Active Member

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    jansz

    did you try prog for ED purposes?

    how did it work out? do you have low levels of prog?

    would adding prog in higher dose be helpful to control your e2?
     
  18. cumkwakka

    cumkwakka Active Member

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    o yeah try some yohimbine, 3 mg twice daily or 5 mg daily in one pill

    can also help without the vision problems

    lower dose might be manageable for jitteryness.. don't take too late in the evening

    some extra arginine might work also some pycnogenol

    nice natural stack
     
  19. Investmentbanker

    Investmentbanker New Member

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    Regardless of the reason if it allows a man to have a healthy sex life then I dont see why it shouldn't be discussed. I have used generics for some time while trying to work on various hormones...it has been a life saver for me.
     
  20. mqsymth

    mqsymth Member

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    PDE5 inhibitor, is a drug used to block the degradative action of phosphodiesterase type 5 on cyclic GMP in the smooth muscle cells lining the blood vessels supplying the corpus cavernosum of the penis. One has to ask why when we get older do we need PDE-5 inhibitors? Don't we generage enough cGMP? or perhaps our bodies generate more phosphodiesterase type 5 but why. Nobody has answered these questions.

    What about PT-141 (Bremelanotide). In studies, bremelanotide was shown to induce lordosis in an animal model and was also effective in treating sexual dysfunction in both men (erectile dysfunction or impotence) and women (sexual arousal disorder). Unlike Viagra and other related medications, it does not act upon the vascular system, but directly increases sexual desire via the nervous system. It operates on the hypothalamus. Administration of PT-141 to normal men and to patients with erectile dysfunction resulted in a rapid dose-dependent increase in erectile activity.

    I've used PT-141 (sample size of one). It's injected subq. You have to experiment and find the right dose. For me the right dose is 1.2mg injected subq into belly fat. In about 3 hours I start feeling the effect. if I think about naked women I get an erection. This drug lasts up to 24-36 hours in your system. If you are with a woman it lets you perform as if you were in your 20s.

    So the question is what brain chemicals am I missing that don't allow me to perform like that without anything. Why does adding PT-141, a synthetic peptide analogue of alpha-MSH, an agonist at melanocortin receptors including the MC3R and MC4R, change my erection behavior so dramatically without a PDE-5 inhibitor....don't know.

    BTW previous reports that PT-141 causes high BP were do to the nasal version. Current research shows no BP changes for SUBQ.

    I'm in my 60s (sample size of one). I'm on TRT(gel plus arimidex). My T, Free T, Bio T and E2 are more or less optimized. I have very little body fat, am muscular, and workout with weights 4x a week for 1.5hrs each. I'm 6', 170#s. My diet is a modified Paleo diet, minimal sugars, no glutan grains, no easily digestable starches. I'm in perfect health with no DOCs (diseases of civilization). So why on earth do I need any enhancers? I don't think optimum TRT is enough when we hit our 60s.
     

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