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Why is blood pressure up - low carb-keto diet?

Discussion in 'Male Health & HRT' started by mcs5309, Sep 19, 2012.

  1. mcs5309

    mcs5309 Member

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    I have been eating low-carb paleo and IF 18/6 for the last 6 months and have been able to reduce some bodyfat which was the goal. I havbe a long way to go, so I added keto to the mix in the last couple weeks, increasing fat to about 65%, protein 30%, and carbs 5%.

    2 weeks prior to starting keto, my latest CMP showed elevated BUN (36 - ref range: 6-24), elevated BUN/Creatinine ratio (39 - ref range:9-20), and elevated urinary uric acid (1118.0 - ref range: 250.0-750.0). I also showed elevated serum calcium (10.9 - ref range: 8.7-10.2). My serum uric acid (UA), however, was normal (4.6 - ref range: 3.7-8.6) as is my creatinine (0.92 - ref range 0.76-1.27) and eGFR (95 - ref range >59). There is no protein in my urine. I do not have gout. These levels have gradually increased over the last 6 mos. I posted on my elevated BUN & uric acid recently: http://www.allthingsmale.com/forum/showthread.php?21082-Need-input-Elevated-BUN-urine-uric-acid

    Just yesterday noticed blood pressure remained elevated all day despite my usual BP-lowering supps. First time ever they had zero effect. I wonder if the increased intake of fats (SFAs) on the keto/low carb diet are causing this, as I have changed nothing else perhaps by increasing total cholesterol?
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9021429
    but this contradicts that:
    http://weightoftheevidence.blogspot.com/2006/02/what-does-saturated-fat-do-to-your.html

    Or could this be the beginning stages of kidney dysfunction, as it goes hand-in-hand with hypertension?

    According to this article, keto may help reduce BP, but may cause kidney stones, the very thing I'm trying to prevent from recurring:
    http://voices.yahoo.com/ketogenic-diets-help-control-blood-pressure-5349961.html

    More on keto and stones:
    http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2010/11/dangers-of-zero-carb-diets-iv-kidney-stones/
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17621514
    http://paleohacks.com/questions/14847/does-a-ketogenic-diet-cause-kidney-stones#axzz26twJurzQ

    And this excerpt from the Paul Jaminet link above explains my elevated uric acid as well:

    Uric Acid Production
    One difference between a ketogenic (or zero-carb) diet and a normal diet is the high rate of protein metabolism. If both glucose and ketones are generated from protein, then over 150 g protein per day is consumed in gluconeogenesis and ketogenesis. This releases a substantial amount of nitrogen. While urea is the main pathway for nitrogen disposal, uric acid is the excretion pathway for 1% to 3% of nitrogen. [7]

    This suggests that ketogenic dieters produce an extra 1 to 3 g/day uric acid from protein metabolism. A normal person excretes about 0.6 g/day. [8]

    In addition to kidney stones, excess uric acid production may lead to gout. Some Atkins and low-carb Paleo dieters have contracted gout.


    Perhaps I should cycle my protein intake as well as carbs? Increase fat even more?
    And what amount of water is recommended for low-carbers? Gallon/day?

    I'm at a loss as to what else I can do.


    Any feedback appreciated!
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2012
  2. seekonk

    seekonk Active Member

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    The idea that this kind of diet is good for everyone is outdated. A significant percentage of people do worse on low-carb/high fat diets for genetic reasons. If you are interested, the SNPs are rs5082 (GG allele associated with worse health markers on high saturated fat diet), rs662799 (AA allele associated with higher BMI from diet with more than 30% fat), and rs1801282 (CC allele does not benefit from high monounsaturated fat diet w.r.t. BMI).
     
  3. mcs5309

    mcs5309 Member

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    Thanks. Where can one get these tests done? Regular labs like Labcorp and Quest don't do them.
     
  4. seekonk

    seekonk Active Member

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    23andme for example. However, you should still take them with a grain of salt. These are statistical results and there are many outliers, and probably many more genetic variants that could influence you one way or another that are still unknown. I think at this point trial and error is probably still the best we can do.
     
  5. misterwhy

    misterwhy New Member

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    I don't have the science behind this, but I can add another voice to this: my BP was consistently elevated into a mildly hypertensive range on a low-carb diet, despite normal cholesterol, healthy body weight, exercise 6 days a week, normal blood sugar, and other levels. When I eat a higher-carb diet (with carbs coming from fruit and "safe starches" like sweet potatoes), my BP normalizes. I've seen this over the last year with several experiments. I've concluded that while I can get noticeably leaner on a low-carb diet, it isn't worth it for the health risks associated with mild hypertension.
     
  6. mcs5309

    mcs5309 Member

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    Still am hypertensive, especially in the a.m. despite diet and supplement intervention. Now, I don't think it matter whether it's VLC or not. Seems more to do with vasoconstriction or lack or vessel relaxation (sympathetic dominance). CNS relaxants like clonidine seem to work in reducing BP.
     
  7. KYinchampaign

    KYinchampaign Member

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    Are you getting enough magnesium is?
     
  8. mcs5309

    mcs5309 Member

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    Yes - I take it with meals and before bed. I've also started using transdermal mag oil, although it is really greasy.
     
  9. mcs5309

    mcs5309 Member

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    Well, some good news for a change. Looks like my genetic dietary fat markers are better than I suspected, especially with respect to SFAs. FWIW, my 23andme.com results showed the following:

    View attachment Response to Diet Report - 23andMeA.pdf
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2013
  10. Rex Hopper

    Rex Hopper New Member

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    Low or no carb diets stimulate the release of catecholamines. That is one of the reasons why these diets help with fat loss. This increase may also cause the elevated blood pressure.
     
  11. Picton

    Picton Active Member

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    Thanks for that comment - That just MIGHT be why my blood pressure has gone up, (and a bit looney and erratic!) when it was otherwise decent after a good bit of weight loss. Definitely deserves some looking into anyway
     
  12. mcs5309

    mcs5309 Member

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    I think you're onto something here and have a renewed interest in this, as my BP has gone up even higher than when I began this thread (eating even less carbs).

    Any chance you could post some links to any studies on this? I practice intermittent fasting AND do low carb in an attempt to oxidize as much bodyfat as possible. Fasting also increase catecholamines. Up-regulated catecholamines are usually elevated upon arising which explains morning HTN. http://www.medicinenet.com/biorhythms/page4.htm
    Cathecholamines are also vasoconstrictors which themselves cause higher BP. When I awake, I notice a kind of tense feeling like I took caffeine or ephedrine - and that is when my BP is the highest. No surprise, when I feel more relaxed by drinking Hawthorn tea, taking magnesium - or any other vasodilatory interventions, my BP drops accordingly.

    What I have found thus far:
    http://www.lylemcdonald.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7023

    My fasting serum catecholamines typically shows normal, but that is a snapshot. Perhaps I need to do a 24-hr urine catecholamines. This explains it best: http://labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/catecholamine/tab/test

    Simple solution would be to start increasing carbs- BUT HOW TO DO SO WITHOUT BEING TAKEN OUT OF KETO? The solution is to stay @ <50g carbs/day - but I don't if that's enough to suppress catecholamines.

    Thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2013
  13. mcs5309

    mcs5309 Member

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    Possibly not now after looking into which forms are more bioavailable than others. For instance, I had been taking mag citrate (Calm) for a long time, but it produces loose stools - so how much can you really absorb? After researching the various forms, I determined that mag glycinate in the best tolerated and apparently does not produce loose stools. I was ready to look into IV mag, but this will hopefully suffice. I ordered the powdered form to get as high a dose as I can.
     
  14. Katzenjammer

    Katzenjammer New Member

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    Cortisol?
     
  15. thx

    thx Member

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    The two references cited each had a bias. The first being Indian aversion to meat diets and the other being a lowcarb blogger who cherry-picks studies that support his bent.

    I tried the Atkins diet for over a year. I lost some weight but my cholesterol skyrocketed. I don't recall it affecting my BP. I donate blood every 2-3 months. They always check my BP. Scanning the website my BP if anything has gone up since stopping the Atkins diet. Before Atkins I tried the Zone Diet. I lost weight on that diet also but my hobby is ultramarathons and I couldn't run well on the Zone. But my cholesterol was down to 130. Now it's 220. I think the Zone is actually a calorie restricted diet and the weird balancing of meat/carb/fat at every meal is a canard. Following the book carefully, I was eating less than 800 calories per day. I've never had high blood pressure. It has ranged from 90/50 to 100/80.

    One thing I noticed on Atkins was I got down to 170# but couldn't lose anymore, while my BP went up. The Zone got me to 160# while also dropping my cholesterol.

    I think getting your weight down should do more to control BP than anything else. Other people on Atkins have had results similar to mine, meaning they get to a point where they quit losing. At that point the only thing that helps them is better portion control and exercise, if their health allows. They seem to not believe in calories in vs calories out.. They can't answer where the excess calories go.

    I worry about saturated fats ending up turning into atherosclerotic plaques which could increase BP.

    thx
     
  16. Rex Hopper

    Rex Hopper New Member

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    When blood sugar is low the body produces glucagon and catecholamines to convert glycogen into glucose. When you are in ketosis your body start to use ketone bodies as an energy source so (in most cases) glucose is not necessary to function. So I aspect that your body will produce more catecholamines on a low carb diet (in which your body still uses glucose as it's main energy source) than with a ketogenic diet. However for anaerobic activity (like weight lifting) you still need glucose as an energy source. So I would suggest carb loading one day a week so you can store glycogen for your work-outs in the coming week. After that you try to get back in ketosis as fast as possible again and limit your carbohydrates to close to zero.

    I can not guarantee that this approach will give you an acceptable blood pressure but I aspect that with regards to your blood pressure a ketogenic diet is better than a low carb diet.
     
  17. mcs5309

    mcs5309 Member

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    I have been following the work of Phinney and Volek and get <50g carbs daily which keeps me in ketosis. The problem is that I am probably still not getting enough FAT over protein - in other words the excess protein is still converting to glucose via gluconeogenesis, so even in if keep my carbs <50g, I am still getting glucose via excess protein. I have no idea is this is what is contributing to elevated BP, especially in the a.m. when I have been fasting. The only other thing I can think of is the MTHFR mutation which I have and which is linked to hypertension.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2013
  18. Rex Hopper

    Rex Hopper New Member

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    Yes, you need enough fat (>50% of total kcal) in a ketogenic diet to work. See if this adjustment lowers your bloodpressure. In my opinion especially coconut oil (rich in MCT's) is a good addition.
     
  19. mcs5309

    mcs5309 Member

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    My BP readings keep going up dangerously despite every OTC supplement available (arginine, hawthorn, fish oil, magnesium, GABA, etc.). For the last 3 years I have been able to keep it in check using one or more of these as an alternative to meds. The only thing I haven't tried is incorporating a bit more carbs to see if that makes any difference. Reducing salt intake does nothing.

    What I did discover in the process via 23andme genetic testing is that my MTHFR C677T mutation is associated with hypertension, so meds may be my only hope. I have also been dx'd with mild sleep apnea which can contribute to HTN as well.

    Cardio is the only thing that brings it down but it's only temporary and goes back up within 4-5 hours after.


    Thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2013
  20. cpeil2

    cpeil2 Active Member

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    What are you calling "dangerously high"? Maybe we define "dangerously high" differently, but to me it means blood pressure so high that you could have a stroke, literally, any minute. If you haven't felt any more urgency about your blood pressure than to be doing anything about it other than playing around with OTC supplements, then, to me, it isn't dangerously high. But if it's higher than 140 systolic and/or 90 diastolic, I would talk to my doc about an ARB (angiotensin II receptor blocker).
     

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