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View Full Version : Success with T3 raising SHBG



ptm82379
04-19-2010, 08:58 PM
I know there is little proof of this out there but I also know that there are several on this board on T3 and some using it to raise SHBG.

Has T3 raised your SHBG?

flyfish1000
04-19-2010, 09:43 PM
Yes my SHBG went higher when adding T3 therapy. The more I added the higher it went.

JanSz
04-19-2010, 09:45 PM
I know there is little proof of this out there but I also know that there are several on this board on T3 and some using it to raise SHBG.

Has T3 raised your SHBG?

I changed now, but I have been using up to 100mcg-T3/day long time.
My SHBG did not changed at all.

SHBG=18
TT=1061
BAT=554
DHT=60

..

00slotiv
04-19-2010, 09:50 PM
I know there is little proof of this out there but I also know that there are several on this board on T3 and some using it to raise SHBG.

Has T3 raised your SHBG?

Not yet after 50 mcg per day. SHBG still at 17. Just added another 25 and some T4 so in three weeks will ask to test this again. I don't want it to go up any higher.

Bob

griffinannie
04-19-2010, 10:12 PM
T3 only sent my SHBG through the roof.

hardasnails1973
04-19-2010, 10:39 PM
Has to be body's inability to metabolize it properly increasing SHBG in the liver. It may just mean that one of the pathways blocked and alot of people that have issues may be undermethylators them self and can not get rid of excessive thyroid hormone.

n00bs
04-19-2010, 10:50 PM
Im confused why one would want higher SHBG??

ptm82379
04-19-2010, 11:54 PM
Im confused why one would want higher SHBG??

Low SHBG in general is hard to find a sweet spot without frequent dosing and constant dosage adjustment. Changes take place rapidly and are harder to pin down.

Im not saying I want my shbg higher, but I can attest to the rollercoaster ride that goes along with low SHBG. I have gotten much better. I have just been curious about SHBG in general for a while.

mikeyboyeee
04-20-2010, 10:48 AM
I am very low SHBG (8.5 last labs) and am on 75mcg T3 per day for few months.

It did nothing for my SHBG.

ASide from more frequent T dosing, what is the downside to low SHBG?

gman
04-20-2010, 11:23 AM
way way way higher.

was 11 on shots and no T3 about a year ago

now my SHBG on cream and T3 is 32

In fact I am getting a little stressed that it's that high!

JanSz
04-20-2010, 04:03 PM
way way way higher.

was 11 on shots and no T3 about a year ago

now my SHBG on cream and T3 is 32

In fact I am getting a little stressed that it's that high!

I would say that you still have healthy responses,
you just have to figure out what makes you tick.

Ticks have to be just right.

Whatever you did, increased your SHBG.

Whatever it is, you have over done it.

Slow down.

I think good SHBG is

SHBG(15-25)


...

gman
04-20-2010, 04:21 PM
I would say that you still have healthy responses,
you just have to figure out what makes you tick.

Ticks have to be just right.

Whatever you did, increased your SHBG.

Whatever it is, you have over done it.

Slow down.

I think good SHBG is

SHBG(15-25)


...

the culprit is the thyroid medicine being a little too much. We are tweaking the dosage down a little!

JanSz
04-20-2010, 04:38 PM
the culprit is the thyroid medicine being a little too much. We are tweaking the dosage down a little!

But you are responding to that tweaking, so there is a hope for you.

-------------------

My own Goals
DHEAs(500-640)mcg/dL(13.55-17.34)Ámol/L------------------major player, 95% time overlooked
Progesterone(0.9-1.2)ng/mL
Pregnenolone(> 100ng/dL)
Estradiol, (25-29)pg/mL
Estrone, LC/MS/MS (23244X)
do not use Anastrozole if possible or minimize its use
BATest(342, 460-575)ng/dL------------stay around 342 if you need more than 1.5mg/week Anastrozole to control E2
DHT(60-90)ng/dL (I am active when it gets over or under this range)
RT3(0.12-0.32)nmol/L=(7.8-20.8)ng/dL=(78-208)pg/mL(( Ron Rothenberg, MD 10-16ng/dL) 09:22 show http://progressive.uvault.com/pd1005/UCP091/03Rothenberg/player.HTM
TotalT3 in upper 1/3 range (June09 LEF magazine)
FreeT3~400pg/dL or higher if TotalT3 goal not reached, but not higher than 450
TotalT4>bottom of range
FreeT4 rather low, do not know (yet) how low
Oral temperature (36.25 - 36.80)C = (97.25 - 98.24)F (no sinus or oral infections)
Ferritin(100-150)
###


//

era
04-20-2010, 11:10 PM
I know there is little proof of this out there but I also know that there are several on this board on T3 and some using it to raise SHBG.

Has T3 raised your SHBG?

I was on T3-only for about a year, at 62.5 mcg/day for the last 6 months. It pushed my SHBG up to 72, where my lab's normal range is 10-60. This is one of several reasons that I am now on T3+T4 therapy.

chilln
04-21-2010, 12:39 PM
I know there is little proof of this out there but I also know that there are several on this board on T3 and some using it to raise SHBG.

Has T3 raised your SHBG?


It's a balancing act. Cranking thyroid hormone cranks SHBG in some people, not in others.

If you're young and fit and healthy and have no hormone dysfunctions, then boosting thyroid hormones will almost always boost your SHBG.

As we age, and our hormones get more and more dysfunctional, all bets are off re thryoid's effects on SHBG.

But as we age, if we boost and optimize our hormones back to youthful levels across the board, then we restore the feedback loops which result in a boost in thyroid cuasing a boost in SHBG.

Most can't / won't modulate many hromones to get back to this point.

.

JanSz
04-21-2010, 02:38 PM
I was on T3-only for about a year, at 62.5 mcg/day for the last 6 months. It pushed my SHBG up to 72, where my lab's normal range is 10-60. This is one of several reasons that I am now on T3+T4 therapy.

#1---It would help if you told us your starting point. If at the beginning you had SHBG=70, that is not much change, but if you had SHBG=10, that would make for a big difference.

#2---for about a year there are (rarely substantiated) claims that eating thyroid hormones raises SHBG. Have that peeked your interest???


...

Dr. John Crisler
04-22-2010, 06:07 AM
Has to be body's inability to metabolize it properly increasing SHBG in the liver. It may just mean that one of the pathways blocked and alot of people that have issues may be undermethylators them self and can not get rid of excessive thyroid hormone.Simply, thyroid speeds up the body, including the liver. That means it makes more protein SHBG.

brandO
04-22-2010, 07:13 AM
Simply, thyroid speeds up the body, including the liver. That means it makes more protein SHBG.

is this good or bad?

ptm82379
04-22-2010, 07:14 AM
Simply, thyroid speeds up the body, including the liver. That means it makes more protein SHBG.

Wow, I never looked at it that way. Have you seen this stabilize a "roller coaster " hormone situation before

Jeffrey J
04-22-2010, 08:27 AM
My SHBG = 13
So I shouldn't worry since I'm close to 15 or would it be prudent to take 25mcg of T3. My thyroid test were normal dead center of the range.

JanSz
04-22-2010, 08:34 AM
Simply, thyroid speeds up the body, including the liver. That means it makes more protein SHBG.

There is a number of forces working in the body.

To have more SHBG

Liver must produce more of it

or

less SHBG is metabolized away

======================================

How SHBG is destroyed?

What regulate this process?

..

chilln
04-22-2010, 11:15 AM
Wow, I never looked at it that way. Have you seen this stabilize a "roller coaster " hormone situation before

Definitely true when there's sufficient cortisol to allow thyroid to do it's work, but members with unresolved low cortisol aren't likely to see the same results.

Some members who have pushed their T levels high, to compensate for a lack of GH, also won't see thyroid boost their SHBG, because the effect of the high T drives SHBG lower, while the thyroid hormone T3 attempts to drive SHBG higher, with a result that SHBG stays the same or drops.

There are other feedback loops too which result in similar clashes with SHBG.

.

Dr. John Crisler
04-22-2010, 01:07 PM
Definitely true when there's sufficient cortisol to allow thyroid to do it's work, but members with unresolved low cortisol aren't likely to see the same results.

Some members who have pushed their T levels high, to compensate for a lack of GH, also won't see thyroid boost their SHBG, because the effect of the high T drives SHBG lower, while the thyroid hormone T3 attempts to drive SHBG higher, with a result that SHBG stays the same or drops.

There are other feedback loops too which result in similar clashes with SHBG.

.
That's quite insightful.

Wise Guy
04-22-2010, 03:48 PM
There is a number of forces working in the body.

To have more SHBG

Liver must produce more of it

or

less SHBG is metabolized away

======================================

How SHBG is destroyed?

What regulate this process?

..

The testes produce SHBG too.

"In addition SHBG is produced by the testes; testes-produced SHBG is also called androgen-binding protein "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_hormone-binding_globulin

JanSz
04-22-2010, 03:51 PM
The testes produce SHBG too.

"In addition SHBG is produced by the testes; testes-produced SHBG is also called androgen-binding protein "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_hormone-binding_globulin

but

How SHBG is destroyed?

What regulate this process?

..................

PureChance
11-19-2010, 04:53 PM
I have just started on T3only medication. Started with 5mcg 8am and 1pm, now 10 days later I am at 30mcg a day (10mcg at 8am, 12pm, 4pm).

My doc doesn't want me increasing past that dosage. I have seen immediate changes, more energy, better mood, more confidence, just feeling more alive overall.

Libido seems down, but then I also changed from 10mg Sustained Release Compounded HC twice daily to Cortef and saw a huge swing... I don't need nearly as much Cortef as I did the Sustained Release version. 2.5mg every three hours equals the 10mg every four hours.

I have SHBG of 11, so it will be interesting to see where it is at in three months.

pmgamer18
11-20-2010, 12:24 PM
I am on T4 only 150 mcgs with T3 only 5 mcgs 2x's per day tried it 3x's per day and felt hyper.


I have just started on T3only medication. Started with 5mcg 8am and 1pm, now 10 days later I am at 30mcg a day (10mcg at 8am, 12pm, 4pm).

My doc doesn't want me increasing past that dosage. I have seen immediate changes, more energy, better mood, more confidence, just feeling more alive overall.

Libido seems down, but then I also changed from 10mg Sustained Release Compounded HC twice daily to Cortef and saw a huge swing... I don't need nearly as much Cortef as I did the Sustained Release version. 2.5mg every three hours equals the 10mg every four hours.

I have SHBG of 11, so it will be interesting to see where it is at in three months.

seekonk
11-21-2010, 10:45 AM
This is Dr Marianco's take on SHBG:

dr Marianco on SHBG
================================================== ======================
Focusing on increasing SHBG is like treating a lab value rather than treating a patient.

The question I would have for a person with low SHBG is: What problems does one have?

Is it low libido, high blood pressure, heart attack risk, depression, anxiety, lack of energy, impaired concentration, urinary frequency, gynecomastia, hot flashes, etc.?

By identifying one's problems, it will be easier to see whether or not SHBG level contributes to the problem.

SHBG has signaling properties of its own. It has its own receptors on cell membranes. When testosterone or estrogens are bound to SHBG, it can bind to its receptors and send its message to the cell. What happens afterwards is not clear. It may be related to the formation of more hormone receptors - but that is speculation at this point.

SHBG helps prolong the duration of action of testosterone, DHT, and estrogens. Low SHBG will increase the amount of free hormone.

Swings in hormone level may occur when low SHBG is present as destruction of the hormone is accelerated by having high free levels. This may cause problems experienced during testosterone replacement. For example, if estrogen is more quickly destroyed/metabolized and levels drop more quickly, one can get hot flashes or anxiety or hypertension, etc. If testosterone levels fluctuate from high to low, depression can occur as the day progresses.

SHBG is made in the liver in response to levels of many hormones:
1. Increasing Testosterone reduces SHBG
2. Increasing DHT lowers SHBG
3. Increasing DHEA lowers SHBG
4. Increasing Growth Hormone lowers SHBG
5. Increasing Insulin lowers SHBG
6. Increasing Estrogen increases SHBG
7. Increasing Thyroid Hormone increases SHBG

The SHBG level is determine by the balance of the hormone levels.

Given one's assumed goals in TRT (high libido, good energy, etc.), it may be difficult to increase SHBG without causing problems since SHBG is determine by a balance of hormones.

For example, having high Testosterone and high DHEA is not a situation where SHBG is going to be high without corresponding problems with estrogen or thyroid.

If anything, SHBG should be most often viewed as an indicator of a problem that needs to be solved - rather than as a problem itself.

For example, SHBG is most commonly an indicator of high insulin levels - i.e. insulin resistance or diabetes. It would be then far more important to address insulin resistance or diabetes in treatment than to focus on SHBG.

If low thyroid is a factor in low SHBG, addressing hypothyroidism is far more important.

If low estradiol is a factor in low SHBG, addressing this is more important.

If the low SHBG itself is a problem because it causes large swings in hormone levels, then working around this by achieving more stable hormone levels is indicated.

More frequent dosing of testosterone may be required to stabilize levels. With testosterone cypionate or enanthate injections, dosing twice a week would be better than once a week.

If frequent dosing of testosterone cannot be achieved with transdermals or injections, then a constant dose solution may be needed. This includes testosterone patches, the buccal system, or testosterone pellet insertions. Testosterone pellet insertions may be viewed as fairly drastic since it involves regular minor surgical procedures, but does give the most stable levels - so is a viable solution for the men with problems due to highly variable hormone levels resulting from low SHBG.

If one suspects swings in hormone levels as a cause of problems, one can look for the swings in hormone levels by obtaining a peak and trough level of the hormones (e.g. total testosterone, estradiol, DHT, etc.). For testosterone injections, this is a level about 24-48 hours after an injection and a level just before the next injection. One can also obtain a midpoint level to fill out the level curve.

Testosterone
11-22-2010, 04:47 PM
This is Dr Marianco's take on SHBG:

dr Marianco on SHBG
================================================== ======================
Focusing on increasing SHBG is like treating a lab value rather than treating a patient.

The question I would have for a person with low SHBG is: What problems does one have?


What if the problem that one has is congenitally low SHBG, irrespective of other hormones?

chilln
11-23-2010, 12:26 AM
I have all the symptoms of hypogonadism, though. Zero body mass, zero libido, facial hair will not come in at age 29, etc.

Doesn't anyone synthesize SHBG for injection?

The first symptoms of too low T metabolism (eg: your symptoms) are usually initially caused by too low overall metabolism, from either too low thyroid hormone T3 and / or a downregulated cortisol-production-line. For most males the downregulation of T is initially a secondary effect.

The younger we are, the more likely just an overall metabolism boost, as either a boost to our cortisol-production-line (by way of pregnenolone supplementation) and / or a boost to our thyroid hormones (by way of a combination of T3 and T4 such as a procine thyroid glandular extract) is an initially minimally invasive hormone modulation therapy.

If you don't need to start supplementing your T until you're older, then you may as well hold off doing that until your older.

I've explained this process in more detail here (bottom half of the post):
http://allthingsmale.com/forum/showpost.php?p=116710&postcount=2

###

In other words, it may be true that your liver has a congenital defect producing SHBG, but you would not jump first to that conclusion. You should only conclude that after you'd tried boosting your overall metabolism, and then after boosting just your T metabolism.

Boosting overall metabolism (most notably by boosting thyroid hormone T3) typically increases SHBG. But don't be disappointed if it doesn't boost your SHBG. Your goal is to resolve your hypogonadal symptoms, with or without boosting your SHBG.

Even though your SHBG is relatively low, and you have hypogognadal symptoms, still means that your liver could be metabolizing hormones slowly, making low SHBG acceptable. Ie: your hypogognadism symptoms are still most likely going to be as a result of the usual problems of too low overall metabolism.

.

pmgamer18
12-02-2010, 01:26 PM
Yes true but very high SHBG binds up Testosterone and you end up with low Free and Bio T levels. I have SHBG at 18 to 22 and I do great at this level.

Low SHBG in general is hard to find a sweet spot without frequent dosing and constant dosage adjustment. Changes take place rapidly and are harder to pin down.

Im not saying I want my shbg higher, but I can attest to the rollercoaster ride that goes along with low SHBG. I have gotten much better. I have just been curious about SHBG in general for a while.