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Knackersyard
11-15-2010, 05:37 AM
Thanks again Chilln

I really appreciate all your effort!!!

I'm making an appointment with the GP today & asking if he can book me in for a Sleep Study.

Can you point me to some Transdermal Preg I could buy & guide me re Dosage & time it should be applied?

Should I also try Melatonin? I tried that before (oral caps), but it didn't seem to do much. Even last night with 8mg Diazepam, I still had to get up twice to pee, so I feel my brain isn't shutting my organs down.


Thanks again!

chilln
11-15-2010, 06:24 AM
Can you point me to some Transdermal Preg I could buy & guide me re Dosage & time it should be applied?


University Compounding Pharmacy

1875 3rd Ave, San Diego, CA 92101, USA

Toll Free: 1-800-985-8065
Local: 1-619-683-2005
Fax: 1-619-683-2008
Email info@ucprx.com

Since pregnenolone is over-the-counter in the USA, therefore these guys should allow you to order a custom batch of pregnenolone, 20% concentration, in a lipoderm base (best absorption, but higest price).

Let 'em know you're in the UK where you don't need a prescription to import pregnenolone and melatonin for personal use.

I don't know if any other UK dudes are using them, but don't let that stop you.

I don't know how good they are at responding to email. I'd be phoning using VoIP if I were you.

################



Should I also try Melatonin? I tried that before (oral caps), but it didn't seem to do much.


Melatonin is only useful when your pregnenolone is relatively high. So the answer is "yes" but you'll need to wait a few weeks after starting supplementing with pregnenolone before starting supplementing with melatonin, in order to ensure your neurotransmitters have gotten used to operating at the higher levels necessary to work synergistically with melatonin to achieve sleep improvement.

You'll find that your sleep will improve just with the pregnenolone alone, but melatonin will ensure that your stage 3 sleep is much deeper and longer.

You should can order your melatonin from University Componding Pharmacy too or you can google that one. If you are fine getting to sleep initially, and you're only having problems staying asleep, then sustained release (or timed release) melatonin is best. If you have trouble falling sleep, then you may need some regular melatonin too.

Sustained release melatonin simply means the melatonin is mixed with methyl cellulose which we cannot digest, and which becomes a gel "blob" which ensures the melatonin is only "extracted" from the "blob" gradually.

.

Knackersyard
11-15-2010, 07:43 AM
Thanks again Chilln

I'll call them in 6-7 hours, IE after 9am PST

I found this [chilln edit: please don't post links to products] Life-Flo-Health-Organic-Living-Pregnenolone

Does this compare with the stuff UCP does? I can't see any concentration on there.

How long would you use Pregnenolone for? I see this one on iHerb suggests :

"Apply for a maximum 25 consecutive days. Resume after a five-day break."

chilln
11-15-2010, 10:11 AM
Life-Flo-Health-Organic-Living-Pregnenolone


The main problem with the off-the-shelf products such as Life-Flo-Health's pregnenolone, is that each "serve" or "pump" provides up to 15mg per pump press.

With 20% compounded pregnenolone from UCP, 1 mL provides 1 gram of the combined pregnenolone and lipoderm mixture, containing 200mg of pregnenolone and 800mg of lipoderm.

To get 200mg of pregnenolone from the Life-Flo-Health product, you would need 13 pumps.

If you're one of those people whose liver is extremely inefficient at metabolizing hormones, then you will only ever need the Life-Flo-Health product.

If your liver is "normal" at metabolizing hormones, then you'll quickly grow to dislike how many pumps of the Life-Flo-Product you're going to apply per day.



How long would you use Pregnenolone for? I see this one on iHerb suggests :
"Apply for a maximum 25 consecutive days. Resume after a five-day break."


We apply pregnenolone daily, usually for the rest of our lives.


Initially we need higher doses, but we soon (in a few weeks) back off to a maintenance dose. As the decades pass and our ACTH becomes more and more downregulated by aging, we gradually increase our maintenance dose of pregnenolone.

Aging is not something about our bodies which is "broken" and can be cured until the next time it "breaks". Aging is programmed into our genes.

.

phife
11-15-2010, 10:46 AM
Melatonin is only useful when your pregnenolone is relatively high. So the answer is "yes" but you'll need to wait a few weeks after starting supplementing with pregnenolone before starting supplementing with melatonin, in order to ensure your neurotransmitters have gotten used to operating at the higher levels necessary to work synergistically with melatonin to achieve sleep improvement.





What if you had been using melatonin prior to starting TD Preg supplementation? I had been using .25mg sublingual melatonin before starting the TD preg.

Would you discontinue melatonin or just keep things going and see what effect the TD preg has and go from there?

spiderRico
11-15-2010, 01:57 PM
University Compounding Pharmacy

1875 3rd Ave, San Diego, CA 92101, USA

Toll Free: 1-800-985-8065
Local: 1-619-683-2005
Fax: 1-619-683-2008
Email info@ucprx.com

Since pregnenolone is over-the-counter in the USA, therefore these guys should allow you to order a custom batch of pregnenolone, 20% concentration, in a lipoderm base (best absorption, but higest price).

Let 'em know you're in the UK where you don't need a prescription to import pregnenolone and melatonin for personal use.

I don't know if any other UK dudes are using them, but don't let that stop you.

I don't know how good they are at responding to email. I'd be phoning using VoIP if I were you.

################



Melatonin is only useful when your pregnenolone is relatively high. So the answer is "yes" but you'll need to wait a few weeks after starting supplementing with pregnenolone before starting supplementing with melatonin, in order to ensure your neurotransmitters have gotten used to operating at the higher levels necessary to work synergistically with melatonin to achieve sleep improvement.

You'll find that your sleep will improve just with the pregnenolone alone, but melatonin will ensure that your stage 3 sleep is much deeper and longer.

You should can order your melatonin from University Componding Pharmacy too or you can google that one. If you are fine getting to sleep initially, and you're only having problems staying asleep, then sustained release (or timed release) melatonin is best. If you have trouble falling sleep, then you may need some regular melatonin too.

Sustained release melatonin simply means the melatonin is mixed with methyl cellulose which we cannot digest, and which becomes a gel "blob" which ensures the melatonin is only "extracted" from the "blob" gradually.

.

Called them, said you need prescription for pregnenolone.

phife
11-15-2010, 02:15 PM
Called them, said you need prescription for pregnenolone.

this was my experience as well with other compounding pharmacies.

JanSz
11-15-2010, 02:41 PM
this was my experience as well with other compounding pharmacies.
It was expected answer if patient resides in USA.

Have you asked if they would ship to UK (or generally outside of USA),
and if they would still require script.


/////////////

Knackersyard
11-15-2010, 03:23 PM
University Compounding Pharmacy

1875 3rd Ave, San Diego, CA 92101, USA

Toll Free: 1-800-985-8065
Local: 1-619-683-2005
Fax: 1-619-683-2008
Email info@ucprx.com

Since pregnenolone is over-the-counter in the USA, therefore these guys should allow you to order a custom batch of pregnenolone, 20% concentration, in a lipoderm base (best absorption, but higest price).

Let 'em know you're in the UK where you don't need a prescription to import pregnenolone and melatonin for personal use.

.


I just called UCP & was told they couldn't do it without prescription. I had to go through 3 people & persist in telling them it was an OTC product.

Then when they accepted that & started to take my address, they said "we don't ship overseas". I said that I'd been informed they did, so the lady then said OK, it will cost extra shipping & guessed at $20

So I've placed an order for a 2oz tube at $25 + $20 shipping

How many pumps should I get out of a 2oz tube?


Thanks!

MarkLA
11-15-2010, 05:54 PM
If I went through all that trouble, I would've bought 4 tubes!

mouk
11-15-2010, 06:16 PM
Most probably, the number of tubes per order is limited to one or two months of treatment and for personal use.

chilln
11-15-2010, 06:20 PM
I just called UCP & was told they couldn't do it without prescription. I had to go through 3 people & persist in telling them it was an OTC product.

Then when they accepted that & started to take my address, they said "we don't ship overseas". I said that I'd been informed they did, so the lady then said OK, it will cost extra shipping & guessed at $20

So I've placed an order for a 2oz tube at $25 + $20 shipping

How many pumps should I get out of a 2oz tube?


Thanks!

Did you specify the concentration of pregnenolone (ie: 20%) and the base (ie: lipoderm) ?

If not, how do you know what concentration you're getting, and how do you know what base you're getting ?

.

rfish1966
11-15-2010, 06:29 PM
University Compounding Pharmacy

1875 3rd Ave, San Diego, CA 92101, USA

Toll Free: 1-800-985-8065
Local: 1-619-683-2005
Fax: 1-619-683-2008
Email info@ucprx.com

Since pregnenolone is over-the-counter in the USA, therefore these guys should allow you to order a custom batch of pregnenolone, 20% concentration, in a lipoderm base (best absorption, but higest price).

Let 'em know you're in the UK where you don't need a prescription to import pregnenolone and melatonin for personal use.

I don't know if any other UK dudes are using them, but don't let that stop you.

I don't know how good they are at responding to email. I'd be phoning using VoIP if I were you.

################



Melatonin is only useful when your pregnenolone is relatively high. So the answer is "yes" but you'll need to wait a few weeks after starting supplementing with pregnenolone before starting supplementing with melatonin, in order to ensure your neurotransmitters have gotten used to operating at the higher levels necessary to work synergistically with melatonin to achieve sleep improvement.

You'll find that your sleep will improve just with the pregnenolone alone, but melatonin will ensure that your stage 3 sleep is much deeper and longer.

You should can order your melatonin from University Componding Pharmacy too or you can google that one. If you are fine getting to sleep initially, and you're only having problems staying asleep, then sustained release (or timed release) melatonin is best. If you have trouble falling sleep, then you may need some regular melatonin too.

Sustained release melatonin simply means the melatonin is mixed with methyl cellulose which we cannot digest, and which becomes a gel "blob" which ensures the melatonin is only "extracted" from the "blob" gradually.

.

For 30 grams of the 20% they charge $24.

JanSz
11-15-2010, 06:40 PM
For 30 grams of the 20% they charge $24.

Have anybody used that (or similar, transdermal) stuff
did blood test
and seen improved pregnenolone levels in their blood?

If yes, please post details, numbers, prior, after.


//

diesiel
11-15-2010, 07:02 PM
Great thread, i'll attempt to call them and get them to ship to canada, hopefully it works.

phife
11-15-2010, 07:20 PM
Have anybody used that (or similar, transdermal) stuff
did blood test
and seen improved pregnenolone levels in their blood?

If yes, please post details, numbers, prior, after.


//

You'll have my results at the beginning of December.

JanSz
11-15-2010, 07:32 PM
You'll have my results at the beginning of December.

That is really nice, we all are waiting for them.
Hopefully they will work in your favor.

To evaluate those future results,
it would help if you had at least some of the indicators prior to you starting on transdermal pregnenolone.

You are welcome to post them now.
Or if they are already posted, give link.

//////

phife
11-15-2010, 07:38 PM
'indicators' as in prior/baseline blood labs?

Everything I have is posted in my thread http://allthingsmale.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15088.

If there are certain labs you'd like to see (aside from the obvious) then let me know and I can have them included.




That is really nice, we all are waiting for them.
Hopefully they will work in your favor.

To evaluate those future results,
it would help if you had at least some of the indicators prior to you starting on transdermal pregnenolone.

You are welcome to post them now.
Or if they are already posted, give link.

//////

JanSz
11-15-2010, 07:47 PM
'indicators' as in prior/baseline blood labs?

Everything I have is posted in my thread http://allthingsmale.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15088.

If there are certain labs you'd like to see (aside from the obvious) then let me know and I can have them included.

I see some of the data here:

http://allthingsmale.com/forum/showpost.php?p=118568&postcount=97

If you are able to get any tests that you want,
look what I ordered for my self, results are on post #2:

http://allthingsmale.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15433


If you want script for that list, I posted it somewhere.
I can repost it, if you wish.
That was for testing at Quest.

Since that time I have learned that this set could be had at (preferable) LabCorp.

I will have to find time and rework that Quest's script into LabCorp's version.

..

..

phife
11-15-2010, 08:16 PM
post #101 has some newer labs done though not quite as extensive.

I use Labcorp.




I see some of the data here:

http://allthingsmale.com/forum/showpost.php?p=118568&postcount=97

If you are able to get any tests that you want,
look what I ordered for my self, results are on post #2:

http://allthingsmale.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15433


If you want script for that list, I posted it somewhere.
I can repost it, if you wish.
That was for testing at Quest.

Since that time I have learned that this set could be had at (preferable) LabCorp.

I will have to find time and rework that Quest's script into LabCorp's version.

..

..

diesiel
11-15-2010, 08:18 PM
isnt there like 3 other threads concerning pregnenolone testing going on. we should keep this one on topic.

chilln
11-15-2010, 10:47 PM
isnt there like 3 other threads concerning pregnenolone testing going on. we should keep this one on topic.

There's only one other long-running-and-active thread relating to pregnenolone, and it specifically addresses oral MLM pregnenolone.

I do occasionally post within that thread to remind members that transdermal pregnenolone is still the more reliable route to boosting pregnenolone, in case members lose track of transdermal pregnenolone while discussing oral MLM pregnenolone. But since some members are lucky enough to achieve reliably high pregnenolone levels via that route, we should not try to confuse the two methods of absorbing more pregnenolone.

Hence the need for this thread re transdermal pregnenolone.

.

chilln
11-15-2010, 10:49 PM
Great thread, i'll attempt to call them and get them to ship to canada, hopefully it works.


Are you sure the Canadian legislation allows for importation-for-personal-use of personal quantities of pregnenolone (not for resale), without a prescription ?

Are you sure the Canadian legislation allows for possession of a personal-use quantity of pregnenolone (not for resale), without a prescription ?

These are two separate concepts, and you should thoroughly address both before embarking on this journey.

.

Knackersyard
11-16-2010, 03:52 AM
Did you specify the concentration of pregnenolone (ie: 20%) and the base (ie: lipoderm) ?

If not, how do you know what concentration you're getting, and how do you know what base you're getting ?

.

Yes I did. Btw, did you know they don't make it, they order it in.

I've had a confirmation email telling me that she'll let me know when it's in & ready for shipment.

JanSz
11-16-2010, 10:13 AM
isnt there like 3 other threads concerning pregnenolone testing going on. we should keep this one on topic.

It is question very much on topic for this thread (transdermal delivery of pregnenolone).
It started with question below.
Is there anybody with answer to that question?


Have anybody used that (or similar, transdermal) stuff
did blood test
and seen improved pregnenolone levels in their blood?

If yes, please post details, numbers, prior, after.


//

pmgamer18
11-16-2010, 02:59 PM
Yes I replyed to that thread my Preg. levels were very low near the bottom of the range. I took 15mgs /day of Life-Flo Preg. Did labs and my levels went up to 77 from nothing.

It is question very much on topic for this thread (transdermal delivery of pregnenolone).
It started with question below.
Is there anybody with answer to that question?

phife
11-16-2010, 03:08 PM
So is this going to be the official transdermal preg thread?

I have a question regarding the timing of application and if it should coincide with how your cortisol levels typically rise and fall or whenever you might regularly experience dips in energy throughout the day.

If there's a better thread to ask this then lemme know.

MarkLA
11-16-2010, 04:44 PM
I had my Preg tested last year. It was 9 (on the scale of 11-200). I started TD preg 50mg/day a few days ago. When I get re-tested in a couple of months, I'll post my results.

I'm hoping to see improved Thyroid, LDL, etc.

Mark

JanSz
11-16-2010, 05:15 PM
I had my Preg tested last year. It was 9 (on the scale of 11-200). I started TD preg 50mg/day a few days ago. When I get re-tested in a couple of months, I'll post my results.

I'm hoping to see improved Thyroid, LDL, etc.

Mark

Do you happen to have any of your own opinion about this post by dr John?

(I will have to fish out other similar posts that he posted over the years.)

My take home message is that the pregnenolone tests is actually quite ok,
but the test shows nothing when there is no pregnenolone in the blood.



PREG is not a relaible assay. It's almost always low--on everyone. Can't be.


/

chilln
11-16-2010, 06:44 PM
Do you happen to have any of your own opinion about this post by dr John?

(I will have to fish out other similar posts that he posted over the years.)

My take home message is that the pregnenolone tests is actually quite ok,
but the test shows nothing when there is no pregnenolone in the blood.


My opinion is that the lab guys may indeed have improved their technology, and Dr Crisler hasn't chased them up.

.

JanSz
11-16-2010, 07:03 PM
My opinion is that the lab guys may indeed have improved their technology, and Dr Crisler hasn't chased them up.

.

That indeed may be the case, we will newer know unless dr John clarify.
But this lattes post was very recent.
07-10-2010

http://allthingsmale.com/forum/showpost.php?p=102335&postcount=42

----------------------------------------------


You are using high density transdermal pregnenolone in various doses and I see that it must be working good for you.

I am sure that you have tested (many times) your pregnenolone and other related hormones.

It would help if you posted what you are testing and how your therapy is progressing.

If you are short on time, I can help you in formatting your data for presentation.

////


//

MarkLA
11-16-2010, 08:16 PM
Do you happen to have any of your own opinion about this post by dr John?

(I will have to fish out other similar posts that he posted over the years.)

My take home message is that the pregnenolone tests is actually quite ok,
but the test shows nothing when there is no pregnenolone in the blood.
/

I'm not sure either. Chilln's hypothesis is good. I always kinda thought that Preg is low because it's getting used up downstream and the test is probably OK. Phil had said that his increased to 77 when he started Life Flo.

OTOH, Dr. Crisler has more experience than anyone. To my knowledge, he was the first to identify the need to supplement Preg for TRT so maybe he has some more details we just don't know.

I'm not really targetting a level of Preg. I'm planning to supplement to see if Thyroid and LDL behave better and that I feel more energetic. Per Chilln's advice, I'm going to back down on dosage if I start getting sleepy. For now, I'm staying on the starting dose of 50mg/day.

neelydan
11-16-2010, 09:28 PM
Pregnenolone in Canada is available by prescription only, so I'm not sure ordering from anywhere will be a viable option unless one is willing to assume the risks of having their product getting swallowed up by customs.

chilln
11-17-2010, 01:58 AM
Pregnenolone in Canada is available by prescription only, so I'm not sure ordering from anywhere will be a viable option unless one is willing to assume the risks of having their product getting swallowed up by customs.

But there may be legal alternatives.

The UK law also requires that pregnenolone be purchased within the UK as prescription-only, but the UK also:

a) allows an individual to possess personal-use quantities of hormone supps without a prescription - provided they are not on-sold.

and

b) allows an individual to import personal-use quantities of the same supps, without a prescription - provided they are not on-sold.

###

If some Canadians have the time, they should investigate similarities to the UK in this area.

.

pmgamer18
11-17-2010, 12:12 PM
I just did more labs last Tue will see them in 2 weeks. So far on Preg. Life-Flo 15 mgs now using 20 mgs. My TT, FT, and Bio T levels shot way up. My Cortisol meds last longer and I sleep very deep now. My Ferritin shot up to 300 don't know if this a lab error will know in 2 weeks.

I asked my Dr. about doing 50mgs from a Compounding Pharmacy he said why your doing great on Life-Flo.

I am 66 on a ton of mens and hormones and like chilln says it's all about your liver. Here is a list of my meds and supplements.
====================================

PHILIP’S MED’S
•Arimidex .25 mg./day.
•Aspirin 81 mg 2x’s/day.
•Alprazolam(Xanax) .25 mg. 3x’s/day.
•Atenolol 25 mg. 1x/day morning for heart beta-blocker.
•Triamterene/HCTZ 37.5/25 mgs. Every other day.
•Testosterone .5 ml. or 100 mgs shot every 3 days.
•Novarel HCG 250 IU’s shot the 1 day each before next Testosterone shot.
•Celebrex 200 mgs. 2x/day morning and dinner.
•Cortef 30 mgs. total 10 mgs morning, 5mgs at 9am, 5 mgs at 1pm, 5 mgs at 6pm and 5mgs at bedtime.
•Florinef .1 mgs. 1x’s/day with ½ tsp. of Sea Salt added to water 27oz 3 to 4x’s/day.
•Cialis 5 mgs/ day for heart and BP.
•Cytomel 5mcgs 2x’s /day.
•Concentra 18 mgs 1x’s /day.
•Synthroid generic 150 mcgs./day.
•Potassium Chloride 20mgs every other day.
•Ferrous Fumarate Iron pills 324 mgs 1x/day.
•Life-Flo 20 mgs. Pregnenolone Cream.
•Darvocet/Acetaminophe/Propoxyphe 650mg/100mg Po Tab. 2x’s/day.
•Tylenol Arthritis Pain 1 tablets 2x’s/day.

Supplements

•TMG 750mg 1pm and 11pm 2 pills a day.
• Solary Super Bio C 2 x’s/day 1000 mgs. Total.
•l-Arginine and l-Orthinine 100 Capsules, 750 mg, Twinlab 1 at bedtime.
•NOW brand ZMA 800mgs 3 at bedtime.
•Copper 2mgs 1 at noon.
•Dr. Cranton's PrimeNutrients 3/day.
•Biotics Bio-D-Mulsion Forte Vit. D 2000 IU's per drop I am doing 10 drops a day.
•Iodoral Iodine 1 tab / day 12.5 mgs.
•I went with NOW brand for the following supplements do to a high levels on a Homocysteine Cardiovascular and below normal level of Folate RBC labs.
•NAC N-Acetyl Cysteine, Selenium, Molybdenum - 600 mg.
•B-12 (Brain) Methylcobalamin - 5000 mcg lozenges. 3x’s/week.
•Coenzyme B Complex.
•P-5-P (Coenzyme B6) 50 mg.
•I am taking 800 mcg. Folacal for low Folate RBC.
•BioCitrate Selenium - 200 mcg 1x’s / day morning.

The following are for Statin Drug Damage sore joints and muscles.
•Ubiquinol Capliques Featuring Kaneka's Qh (400mgs) 3x’s/day mercola.com.
•Lecithin 1200 mgs 3 caps 2x’s/day.
•Acetyl-L Carnitine 500 mg 3x’s/day.
•Alpha Lipoic Acid 250 mg/day.
•Krill Oil capliques 1,000 mgs. 2 with food morning mercola.com.








I'm not sure either. Chilln's hypothesis is good. I always kinda thought that Preg is low because it's getting used up downstream and the test is probably OK. Phil had said that his increased to 77 when he started Life Flo.

OTOH, Dr. Crisler has more experience than anyone. To my knowledge, he was the first to identify the need to supplement Preg for TRT so maybe he has some more details we just don't know.

I'm not really targetting a level of Preg. I'm planning to supplement to see if Thyroid and LDL behave better and that I feel more energetic. Per Chilln's advice, I'm going to back down on dosage if I start getting sleepy. For now, I'm staying on the starting dose of 50mg/day.

Knackersyard
11-18-2010, 01:37 PM
I just received this email from UCP


QUOTE
We got the over the counter product in. I'm looking at the ingredients and the active ingredients are 4th from last. Personally I don't feel confidant that this product would deliver the concentration you are looking for. I would hate for you to waste your money.
We also have over the counter prenenolone 10mg sub-lingual tabs or if you could get a prescribing doctor here in the U.S. to write a prescription we would be able to compound the pregnenolone cream. I am out of the office for the rest of the day please let me know what you would like to do.

Thank you Cristina

University Compounding Pharmacy

UNQUOTE


Obviously, I know I don't want the Sub-lingual. Wonder why she says this, she already confirmed it's 20% concentration in a previous email.

What should I do?


Thanks!

Knackersyard
11-18-2010, 02:15 PM
2nd email :

QUOTE
Please keep in mind this is a over the counter product. When you say custom batch of pregnenolone 20% that would be a compounding prescription medication, not over the counter.

This pregnenolone plus cream ingredients: purified water, glycerin, aloe barbadensis leaf juice, sodium hyluronate, potassium sorbate, methylsulfonylmethane, caprylic/capric triglyceride, helianthus annuus (sunflower) seed oil butyrospermum parkii, stearic acid, pregnenolone, glyceryl stearate,oenothera biennis (evening primrose) oil, lecithin, glyeryl laurate, tocotrienol, soduim bicarbonate and vitis vinifera.


UNQUOTE


I'm really confused, because I aked exactly for “a custom batch of pregnenolone, 20% concentration, in a lipoderm base” just as instructed.

MarkLA
11-18-2010, 03:15 PM
Yes, you should ask them about that. Mine was prescribed as 100mg/ml. Dosage 1/2 ml per day (50mg/day).

FWIW -

Pregnenelone powder is for sale on the internet. It is not a restricted product anymore than Vitamin C.

It's also possible to buy TD base cream online.

You'd have to become comfortable with making your own and being responsible for the quality therein. You also have to have some confidence in the purity and quality of the ingredients.

I'm in the USA, so for me, I just got it from the compounder. Cost was $47 for 30ml which is 60 days supply at 50mg/day.

Mark

Knackersyard
11-18-2010, 03:38 PM
Yes, you should ask them about that. Mine was prescribed as 100mg/ml. Dosage 1/2 ml per day (50mg/day).

FWIW -

Pregnenelone powder is for sale on the internet. It is not a restricted product anymore than Vitamin C.

It's also possible to buy TD base cream online.

You'd have to become comfortable with making your own and being responsible for the quality therein. You also have to have some confidence in the purity and quality of the ingredients.

I'm in the USA, so for me, I just got it from the compounder. Cost was $47 for 30ml which is 60 days supply at 50mg/day.

Mark

Thanks Mark

Interesting stuff!!! So are you saying you now just buy the powder & base cream & mix your own??

I'm no chemist, but if it's that simple, I would have a go. Measuring 2 ingredients can't be so difficult.

Where would I buy them?


Thanks again!

Knackersyard
11-18-2010, 03:55 PM
Just found this email in Junk :

QUOTE
Thank you for interest in our products here at University Compounding Pharmacy. Yes we can compound a custom batch of Pregnenolone 20% in lipoderm for a price $49.95 per 30gms, however we can not ship outside of the United States and it does require a prescription from a valid US doctor. Please let me know if there is anything else I can do for you. Thank you,

Michelle Brown, Supervisor
University Compounding Pharmacy
1875 Third Ave
San Diego, CA 92101
(619)683-2005 Ext. 321

UNQUOTE


Looks like I'll have to try mixing my own, as suggested by MarkLA

mouk
11-18-2010, 04:34 PM
I have been following this thread closely - i have just switched from MLM Preg to a TD Preg cream at 1%.

If UCP can't ship outside US , i have a US forwarding address whis is billed on a yearly basis and all that i order is sent to me in France by UPS or DHL. The shipping fees are quite high and i pay regularly custom charges on it . I mean it's a regular stuff , if the customs clear the merchandise, it's OK .

But we will never find a US doc willing to write a script for Preg cream at 20% ...

I just called my labs for my results and they are not still out - it was a urine test while i was on oral MLM Preg . Hope that the sample did not arrive messed up to this lab in Paris...
That's why i don't rely solely on labs.

Just wondering where the patients of Dr Hertoghe buy their preg cream ...
Dr H. has good ties with UCP as he will be coaching a bioidentical HRT seminar in february 2011 at Las Vegas
or he isn't using any Preg and just Progesterone cream ...

MarkLA
11-18-2010, 05:38 PM
Thanks Mark

Interesting stuff!!! So are you saying you now just buy the powder & base cream & mix your own??

I'm no chemist, but if it's that simple, I would have a go. Measuring 2 ingredients can't be so difficult.

Where would I buy them?

Thanks again!

I think you should know more about chemistry if you're going that route.

If Man Law's permit, I'll post the sites I found which appear legit. Otherwise, I can PM them to you.

chilln
11-18-2010, 05:43 PM
I have been following this thread closely - i have just switched from MLM Preg to a TD Preg cream at 1%.

If UCP can't ship outside US , i have a US forwarding address whis is billed on a yearly basis and all that i order is sent to me in France by UPS or DHL. The shipping fees are quite high and i pay regularly custom charges on it . I mean it's a regular stuff , if the customs clear the merchandise, it's OK .

But we will never find a US doc willing to write a script for Preg cream at 20% ...

I just called my labs for my results and they are not still out - it was a urine test while i was on oral MLM Preg . Hope that the sample did not arrive messed up to this lab in Paris...
That's why i don't rely solely on labs.

Just wondering where the patients of Dr Hertoghe buy their preg cream ...
Dr H. has good ties with UCP as he will be coaching a bioidentical HRT seminar in february 2011 at Las Vegas
or he isn't using any Preg and just Progesterone cream ...

That's why i started a thread on "HRT without compounding pharmacies" ... http://www.allthingsmale.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15522

I originally thought you were based in the UK, where mail-ordering pregnenolone without a prescription is legal, hence I kept that thread open.

Now that I know that you do not reside in the UK, therefore I suspect (but don't have time to prove) that in EU countries a prescription or a government-sanctioned-import-certificate is required to import pregnenolone.

Therefore sorry to be the bearer of less-than-optimal news, but I've deleted that thread as in my view it most likely discusses illegal activity, and I'm not prepared to allow it to continue on the low likelihood that it might just be discussing legal activity.

If you want to startup a similar thread, please first do the following:
a) confirm that your government allows you to import a hormone(s) legally without a prescription,
b) in y our first post, please list the URL references which helped you come to that conclusion (forum member suggestions won't be considered as adequate)
c) I'll crosscheck your references before deciding whether to allow the thread to continue.

.

.

diesiel
11-18-2010, 07:18 PM
The reason why I don't write out the longer sentence version is because too many people won't read long sentences.

.

If people dont want to read long sentences then its at their own peril, HRT doesn't seem likely to be best described in short statements. I say type out your long sentences, those that read them will benefit more, those that dont -- well then they're not serious enough about their own problems to want to fix them

JanSz
11-18-2010, 07:40 PM
I have been following this thread closely - i have just switched from MLM Preg to a TD Preg cream at 1%.

If UCP can't ship outside US , i have a US forwarding address whis is billed on a yearly basis and all that i order is sent to me in France by UPS or DHL. The shipping fees are quite high and i pay regularly custom charges on it . I mean it's a regular stuff , if the customs clear the merchandise, it's OK .

But we will never find a US doc willing to write a script for Preg cream at 20% ...

I just called my labs for my results and they are not still out - it was a urine test while i was on oral MLM Preg . Hope that the sample did not arrive messed up to this lab in Paris...
That's why i don't rely solely on labs.

Just wondering where the patients of Dr Hertoghe buy their preg cream ...
Dr H. has good ties with UCP as he will be coaching a bioidentical HRT seminar in february 2011 at Las Vegas
or he isn't using any Preg and just Progesterone cream ...

That's why i started a thread on "HRT without compounding pharmacies" ... http://www.allthingsmale.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15522

I think Dr Hertoghe is busy checking progesterone (in men),
but he also talks about pregnenolone (as a brain hormone) .

http://allthingsmale.com/forum/showthread.php?p=119853#post119853

http://fissa.phpnet.org/uploads/media/AAMS_Complete%20document_22_juni_2010.pdf

http://fissa.phpnet.org/uploads/media/IHS_Complete_document_22_juni_2010.pdf

...
Dr Mariano also associates pregnenolone with allo-pregnenolone (brain)

...

JanSz
11-18-2010, 08:50 PM
It only doesn'tincrease pregenenolone levles in the minority of people who aren't able to absorb any hormones via transdermal means (not restricted to pregenolone).



You're one of the lucky minority who do indeed benefit from oral MLM pregnenolone - and that's excellent news.

I only state that "transdermal pregnenolone is more reliable than oral MLM pregnenolone".

I don't say "oral MLM pregnenolone is inadequate" (or words to that effect).

I can combine the two concepts by saying a longer sentence, ie: "transdermal pregenolone raises pregenolone levels in serum more reliably, in more people, than oral MLM pregenolone raises pregenolone levels in serum."

The reason why I don't write out the longer sentence version is because too many people won't read long sentences.

.

There is four or five posts of people who used MLM pregnenolone
and posted results of blood tests indicating raise in pregnenolone levels.
Those are JanSz, BrandO, random123, theturducken and another member.

There is statement from dr John that says that transdermal pregnenolone (universally) results in no increase is serum pregnenolone levels.

I am still waiting for someone who used transdermal pregnenolone to post pre and post, serum pregnenolone levels.
(Yes, Phil indicated minor daily dose and minor increase.)

///////

neelydan
11-18-2010, 08:54 PM
There is statement from dr John that says that transdermal pregnenolone (universally) results in no increase is serum pregnenolone levels.



///////

I thought Dr. John was an advocate of supplemental pregnenolone?

neelydan
11-18-2010, 08:55 PM
Also - if one had issues absorbing transdermal testosterone, could one safely assume the same issue with pregnenolone would exist?

JanSz
11-18-2010, 08:57 PM
I thought Dr. John was an advocate of supplemental pregnenolone?

Dr John is using transdermal pregnenolone on his patients.
Hi does not believe in testing it by blood test.

There is rather few of his posts stating that.
I often post last his post on that, because I saved link.
But there are other of his posts with similar message.

//

neelydan
11-18-2010, 09:26 PM
Dr John is using transdermal pregnenolone on his patients.
Hi does not believe in testing it by blood test.

There is rather few of his posts stating that.
I often post last his post on that, because I saved link.
But there are other of his posts with similar message.

//

I guess I'm confused why he would use something he states does not raise serum levels.

GirlyMan
11-18-2010, 09:36 PM
I guess I'm confused why he would use something he states does not raise serum levels.

Because in his clinical practice he has observed the alleviation of symptoms in enough patients to try it regularly regardless of labs? Just guessin'.

EDIT: Oh, I forgot the most important component. He also has a plausible theory to explain his observations.

chilln
11-18-2010, 09:43 PM
There is four or five posts of people who used MLM pregnenolone
and posted results of blood tests indicating raise in pregnenolone levels.
Those are JanSz, BrandO, random123, theturducken and another member.

There is statement from dr John that says that transdermal pregnenolone (universally) results in no increase is serum pregnenolone levels.

I am still waiting for someone who used transdermal pregnenolone to post pre and post, serum pregnenolone levels.
(Yes, Phil indicated minor daily dose and minor increase.)

///////

Mine have indeed increased, but I'm not posting my actual results.

I don't post my actual lab results, I only describe my relative increases.

I have adopted this policy because there are far too many people who use hormone numerology (far more than just you) who continue to claim that there are actual optimal numerical targets for hormones, and optimal dosages for hormone modulating supplements, when that's far from correct.

The biggest variable in our hormone levels is our lifestyle stress levels (physical and mental), which govern our cortisol requirements, and cortisol has a powerful modulating effect on our genetic optimums for our various hormones.

The biggest variable in our hormone dosing requirements is our liver's hormone metabolism rates for each of our hormones, which determines how long each hormone hangs around doing "good work" in our bloodstream, thus every one of us has differing dosing levels because our different hormone modulating supps hang around doing "good work" for different durations, before they're removed from our bloodstream.

.

JanSz
11-18-2010, 09:46 PM
I guess I'm confused why he would use something he states does not raise serum levels.

Women's HRT is build around trust, feeling, perception.

Often promoted as an art.

Then nobody wants to admit being simpleton.



------

GirlyMan
11-18-2010, 10:20 PM
Women's HRT is build around trust, feeling, perception.

Often promoted as an art.
The best clinician's I've found are more art than science. They just apply a different, more rigorous pallette and process to a living, interactive canvas.


Then nobody wants to admit being simpleton.
I personally have no problem admitting that. The problem is that too many of us are unwilling to recognize and admit that.

medgerton
11-19-2010, 12:45 AM
I don't understand why a prescription is required for an OTC product, pregnenolone.

Are compounding pharmacies being ultra conservative in requiring a prescription?

Or is my understanding of what OTC means faulty?

MarkLA
11-19-2010, 01:02 AM
I don't understand why a prescription is required for an OTC product, pregnenolone.

Are compounding pharmacies being ultra conservative in requiring a prescription?

Or is my understanding of what OTC means faulty?

Might be a legal reason.

It's probably also good for business not to deal with people who are not being advised by a doctor. Otherwise they'd be looking to the Pharmacist for advice when things don't go according to plan. Remember, they'd be selling to anyone who calls them up, not just our group which might have a better idea..

chilln
11-19-2010, 03:12 AM
I don't understand why a prescription is required for an OTC product, pregnenolone.


It's not. Very few people understand pregnenolone, that includes the non-medically-trained people who answer the phones at some pharmacies (not everyone who works in a pharmacy has been medically trained)




Are compounding pharmacies being ultra conservative in requiring a prescription?


Nope - it's lack of knowledge. They just need to be educated by the person on the phone (be gentle).

.

Knackersyard
11-19-2010, 05:22 AM
It's not. Very few people understand pregnenolone, that includes the non-medically-trained people who answer the phones at some pharmacies (not everyone who works in a pharmacy has been medically trained)


Nope - it's lack of knowledge. They just need to be educated by the person on the phone (be gentle).

.


Thanks Chilln

So are you saying these ladies have got it wrong & I definitely should be able to get that Compounded 20% stuff sent to me???

Thanks again!

neelydan
11-19-2010, 10:04 AM
I don't even understand the connection being made here, so obviously I am willing to admit that I'm 9 parts simpleton, 1 part water.

GirlyMan
11-19-2010, 06:25 PM
I don't even understand the connection being made here, so obviously I am willing to admit that I'm 9 parts simpleton, 1 part water.

You need to hydrate more. The optimal ratio seems to be 4 parts simpleton to 6 parts water (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_water). Find a place that will run this test (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flowing_afterglow_mass_spectrometry) and report back.

chilln
11-19-2010, 07:44 PM
So are you saying these ladies have got it wrong & I definitely should be able to get that Compounded 20% stuff sent to me ?


yep - definitely - but you will still need to be persistent when you remind the person on the phone that pregnenolone, progesterone and DHEA are categorized in the USA as dietary supplements, unlike cortisol and testosterone which are categorized in the USA as controlled substances (drugs).

In addition, you should invite the person to google three words while you're talking to them on the phone, ie: "pregnenolone LEF capsules", and they'll discover that LEF is selling 100mg pregnenolone capsules over-the-counter.

Remind them that LEF are a huge dietary supplement manufacturer and seller in the USA, in case they don't already know.

.

JanSz
11-19-2010, 07:47 PM
You need to hydrate more. The optimal ratio seems to be 4 parts simpleton to 6 parts water (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_water). Find a place that will run this test (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flowing_afterglow_mass_spectrometry) and report back.

How healthy it is to ingest Heavy water?

;;
Mammals given heavy water fall ill from lack of needed blood-cell and intestinal-cell replacement, and die when about 50% of their body-water has been replaced with heavy water.


The American patent U.S. Patent 5,223,269 is for the use of heavy water to treat hypertension (high blood pressure). A loss of blood pressure may partially explain the reported incidence of dizziness upon ingestion of heavy water.
...

chilln
11-19-2010, 08:54 PM
Just found this email in Junk :

QUOTE
Thank you for interest in our products here at University Compounding Pharmacy. Yes we can compound a custom batch of Pregnenolone 20% in lipoderm for a price $49.95 per 30gms, however we can not ship outside of the United States and it does require a prescription from a valid US doctor. Please let me know if there is anything else I can do for you. Thank you,

Michelle Brown, Supervisor
University Compounding Pharmacy
1875 Third Ave
San Diego, CA 92101
(619)683-2005 Ext. 321

UNQUOTE



Thanks for that. I suspect that including lipoderm makes the product require a prescription.

I'll find out what other bases they can use which means the combined product can be sold over-the-counter.

.

snook
11-19-2010, 09:13 PM
yep - definitely - but you will still need to be persistent when you remind the person on the phone that both pregnenolone and DHEA are categorized in the USA as dietary supplements, unlike progesterone and testosterone which are categorized in the USA as controlled substances.

In addition, you should invite the person to google three words while you're talking to them on the phone, ie: "pregnenolone LEF capsules", and they'll discover that LEF is selling 100mg pregnenolone capsules over-the-counter.

Remind them that LEF are a huge dietary supplement manufacturer and seller in the USA, in case they don't already know.
.

Are you sure about progesterone being controlled? LEF sells it right off their website, without requiring a prescription.

http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/Item00869/Pro-Fem-Cream.html

chilln
11-20-2010, 12:07 AM
Are you sure about progesterone being controlled? LEF sells it right off their website, without requiring a prescription.

http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/Item00869/Pro-Fem-Cream.html

Thanks for spotting that. I've corrected it in the original.

.

Knackersyard
11-20-2010, 07:18 AM
yep - definitely - but you will still need to be persistent when you remind the person on the phone that pregnenolone, progesterone and DHEA are categorized in the USA as dietary supplements, unlike cortisol and testosterone which are categorized in the USA as controlled substances (drugs).

In addition, you should invite the person to google three words while you're talking to them on the phone, ie: "pregnenolone LEF capsules", and they'll discover that LEF is selling 100mg pregnenolone capsules over-the-counter.

Remind them that LEF are a huge dietary supplement manufacturer and seller in the USA, in case they don't already know.

.


Thanks for that. I suspect that including lipoderm makes the product require a prescription.

I'll find out what other bases they can use which means the combined product can be sold over-the-counter.

.


Thanks again Chilln

I'll await your instruction.



I see the "Homebrew TD Preg" thread was pulled. Any idea why? Was it because some Sources & Prices got on there???

Would it be OK to do one, which just involved :

- How much powder to how much base = 20% concentrate
- How to mix
- How to Measure out Daily dose etc..

As long as NO mention of Price & Source????



Thanks again!

PPC
11-20-2010, 09:56 AM
Are you sure about progesterone being controlled? LEF sells it right off their website, without requiring a prescription.

http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/Item00869/Pro-Fem-Cream.html

I'm confused as to why you can buy 2-3% progesterone creams OTC but to get a 10% cream requires a Doc's script...could it be the same issue with preg? You can buy it in low strength OTC but no one yet is willing to sell it at 10 or 20%...perhaps not since you can buy high oral doses. Is there just a threshold for higher strength creams where someone has decided Docs need to get involved?

JanSz
11-20-2010, 10:53 AM
Yes, nice info. That is exactly Dr Reiss's take on it. Yet....Janz did see an increase in dhea and a mild bump in cortisol. There is so much talk here right now about the ability of high dose transdermal preg to downswim into progesterone and cortisol, balance neurotransmitters, balance E2 etc etc....is preg just preg or do we have evidence that the transdermal route actually turns into what is is supposed to??????

Depending what one calls evidence.
I am still waiting for a blood tests of people using transdermal pregnenolone.


So far I know what dr John says.
Transdermal pregnenolone does not show on blood tests.
That does not stop dr John from using pregnenolone on his patients.

Now we may think in terms of

age (less than 35yo, or more than 35 yo)


//
My June experiment indicate that by supplementing with progesterone I should be able to have it both ways.
Increased progesterone (and its metabolites)
Increased pregnenolone.

But my next test will show how it actually turns out.
Going by how I feel, progesterone works better (for 70yo) than pregnenolone.

It is 16th day on Prometrium.
I am constantly watching my boobs, so far no bad signs.
that 100mg Prometrium daily is probably too much,
but it does not stop nightly erections, it actually improves them.

...


NOTE from interview w dr Hertoghe:

Melatonin improves pregnancy.

///

mouk
11-20-2010, 12:51 PM
Serum testing

- Reflects circulating hormones bound or unbound
- Not an accurate method for measuring hormones that are applied using the transdermal route
- Can overdose the patient because of higher tissue levels
Quoted from Pamela Smith MD.

seekonk
11-20-2010, 01:37 PM
Il faut
donc plutôt la voir comme une hormone
typiquement pour la mémoire et, éventuellement,
dans certaines pathologies nerveuses.
Par exemple, lorsqu’on lèse certains
nerfs chez l’animal au niveau de la moelle
épinière, on a vu que la prégnénolone permettait
une réparation de ce nerf plus rapide
et plus efficace.

Interesting. So he says that it may be good for healing nerve pathologies in the spinal cord. So maybe it is a good supplement for those of us with nerve damage due to back injuries.

seekonk
11-20-2010, 01:41 PM
Assuming good absorption, what would be a good TD equivalent of a 50 mg oral dose?

mouk
11-20-2010, 02:37 PM
Assuming good absorption, what would be a good TD equivalent of a 50 mg oral dose?

Personnally, i have replaced my 75 mg of MLM Preg by 60 mg of TD Preg cream.
I still don't feel the need to go back on HC - my main goal is to balance my low cortisol levels.

The only difference i have noticed so far ( since a week) : i have more dreams at night.
A sleep study without and on TD preg ?

But i don't know if i can still manage to apply about 6 cc of Preg cream at 1% daily, in the long run ( No access to compounding pharmacies).

MarkLA
11-20-2010, 03:04 PM
I noticed the same thing. I never used to dream. Now I can often remember a dream from the night before. I also sleep much more soundly. (I'm on 50 mg TD preg)

longrob
11-20-2010, 06:12 PM
I have read that oral pregnenolone is converted by some people's livers into a compound which is seen by the brain as similar to benzodiazepine.
Benzodiazepines possess sedative, hypnotic, anxiolytic, anticonvulsant, muscle relaxant, and amnesic actions.
Did anyone ever notice any of these side effects from MLM Preg?
-Rob

phife
11-20-2010, 08:16 PM
I noticed the same thing. I never used to dream. Now I can often remember a dream from the night before. I also sleep much more soundly. (I'm on 50 mg TD preg)

I'm sleeping much better on TD preg as well. Or rather, I wake up feeling more refreshed and if I wake up in the middle of the night to pee, I feel 'normal' as opposed to before when I felt sleep starved and 'drugged'.

At all other times however, TD preg makes me feel like absolute crap. For the life of me I cannot get the dosing/timing right. I tried to switch to afternoon application instead of morning to better match when my cortisol was dropping but if anything I've felt worse doing this.

I've also noticed some negative effects on body composition. Could be coincidental but I'm wondering if I'm now getting far too much cortisol which is having some catabolic effects.

chilln
11-20-2010, 08:49 PM
I see the "Homebrew TD Preg" thread was pulled. Any idea why?


The following are all independent inputs, they are not dependent on each other:

1) Pregnenolone is a dietary supplement only in the USA and UK.

2) In all EU countries / member states, in Canada and Australia pregnenolone is a controlled substance. A lot of people (includes doctors) aren't aware of these variations.

3) Modifications to controlled substances in all these countries, can only be done via state and federal government approved manufacturing facilities, not at home.

4) Dr Crisler recommends to those attending his lectures that they drop into this forum to observe the quality of the discussions.

5) Compounding pharmacies are repeatedly attacked by the FDA to satisfy Big Pharma's interest in shutting down compounding pharmacies, and I don't want this forum to provide the FDA with any ammunition regarding advocating poorly controlled compounding of any substance (drug or dietary supplement) simply because it's done at home instead of by a compounding pharmacy.

###

When I add all of the above together, I see that discussions re modifications to pregnenolone can be construed by some lurkers, including the FDA, as illegal activity of one type or another, and they will not login and discuss, they will form their opinion, and that opinion will reflect badly on Dr Crisler's reputation in that person's mind.

###

Attempting to create a thread which is exclusively for participation by USA-based members is futile, because no-one will honor the exclusivity of that thread. Attempting to restrict a thread only makes it more tempting for members to corrupt it.

###

Compounding pharmacies will only provide compounded pregnenolone, progesterone and DHEA with a prescription, even though they contain dietary supplements as ingredients.

The reason they require a prescription, has the following details:
a) Compounding premises are both a manufacturing premises, and a drug dispensary premises
b) During an audit of a manufacturing premises which manufactures dietary supps, the manufacturer, not the auditer, must validate that the ingredients are indeed dietary, not a drug.
c) By adopting a uniform process that all compounded substances require a prescription, then this requirement is bypassed because all compounded substances are treated as if they were drugs.

I'll add the following self-evident comment: There isn't sufficient market share from the UK and Europe for these small companies to bother to collate conclusive proof that pregnenolone, progesterone and DHEA are dietary supplements.

Note that the FDA does not keep a register of dietary supplements. Evidence that something is a dietary supplement is therefore not trivial. Eg: "LEF sells it as a capsule" is only evidence that someone else might also be breaking the law.

.

chilln
11-20-2010, 08:55 PM
I'm confused as to why you can buy 2-3% progesterone creams OTC but to get a 10% cream requires a Doc's script...could it be the same issue with preg? You can buy it in low strength OTC but no one yet is willing to sell it at 10 or 20%...perhaps not since you can buy high oral doses. Is there just a threshold for higher strength creams where someone has decided Docs need to get involved?

I believe the issue is the bases required to transport the higher concentrations of transdermal pregnolone, DHEA and progesterone are not "dietary".

Ie: in a dietary supplement, all of the ingredients need to be dietary, not just the active ingredient.

I'm chasing up a few pharmacists to see if this is their view.

.

Knackersyard
11-21-2010, 04:42 AM
The following are all independent inputs, they are not dependent on each other:

1) Pregnenolone is a dietary supplement only in the USA.

2) In all EU countries / member states, in the UK, in Canada and in Australia pregnenolone is a controlled substance. A lot of people (includes doctors) aren't aware of these variations.

3) Modifications to controlled substances in all these countries, can only be done via state and federal government approved manufacturing facilities, not at home.

4) Dr Crisler recommends to those attending his lectures that they drop into this forum to observe the quality of the discussions.

###

When I add all of the above together, I see that discussions re modifications to pregnenolone can be construed by some lurkers as illegal activity, and they will not login and discuss, they will form their opinion, and that opinion will reflect badly on Dr Crisler's reputation in that person's mind.

.



Thanks for clearing that up.

I wasn't complaining btw, just thought it might be one aspect, Prices or sources mentioned etc.. that we could have removed & carried on. I understand now.

You're right to maintain the high quality of this forum. If only the Legal systems had the same consistency & high quality! :angry:

Sargovar
11-21-2010, 06:44 AM
The following are all independent inputs, they are not dependent on each other:

1) Pregnenolone is a dietary supplement only in the USA.

2) In all EU countries / member states, in the UK, in Canada and in Australia pregnenolone is a controlled substance. A lot of people (includes doctors) aren't aware of these variations.

.

As far as I'm aware, pregnenolone is not a controlled substance here in Finland. It is not on the customs list of controlled substances, and while it isn't available as a dietary supplement in any local stores, it can be readily ordered from abroad.

chilln
11-21-2010, 08:52 AM
As far as I'm aware, pregnenolone is not a controlled substance here in Finland. It is not on the customs list of controlled substances, and while it isn't available as a dietary supplement in any local stores, it can be readily ordered from abroad.

The fact that someone inside Finland can order pregneolone from abroad does not validate that Finland considers pregnenolone to be a dietary substance.

For example: pregnenolone is a controlled substance (drug) in the UK, but the UK does allow pregnenolone to be legally imported without a prescription. Finland may have a similar legislative view of pregnenolone.

You would need to consult Finland's definitive list of controlled substances, before you can make that claim. I'm not interested in disclaimers such as "as far as I'm aware".

.

Sargovar
11-21-2010, 10:38 AM
The fact that someone inside Finland can order pregneolone from abroad does not validate that Finland considers pregnenolone to be a dietary substance.

For example: pregnenolone is a controlled substance (drug) in the UK, but the UK does allow pregnenolone to be legally imported without a prescription. Finland may have a similar legislative view of pregnenolone.

You would need to consult Finland's definitive list of controlled substances, before you can make that claim. I'm not interested in disclaimers such as "as far as I'm aware".

.

You can't get a prescription for it, and I doubt it is manufactured here at all. It is not listed by the customs as a controlled substance (this has been verified), nor is it listed as a medical substance or drug: you can't walk into a pharmacy and ask for it because they don't have it. Whether that leaves it in the "dietary substance" category or the "unclassified" one - that I do not know. Bottom line is, it's not a controlled substance. That being said, the customs institution can always decide to intercept any shipment of supplements at whim. They've been known to do this with stuff such as vitamin C etc, so there are never any iron-clad guarantees that what you ordered will make it to your doorstep.

Anyways, I guess I should've left out the "as far as I'm aware" part.

chilln
11-21-2010, 08:50 PM
It is not listed by the customs as a controlled substance


I found pregnenoloni in the following documents (note the spelling of pregnenoloni - ends with an "i"):

1) LÄÄKEAINELUETTELO" (drug list) 2000
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:C:2000:115A:2993:3136:FI:PDF

2) LÄÄKEAINELUETTELO" (drug list) 1999
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:C:1999:212A:2919:3104:FI:PDF

3) LÄÄKEAINELUETTELO" (drug list) 1998
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:C:1998:115A:3199:3308:FI:PDF

I don't speak Finnish, so I cannot find the 2010 edition of the Finnish lääkeaineluettelo, but you should be able to do it.

When you find it, could you please post the link back here so I can confirm for myself that the 2010 edition of lääkeaineluettelo does not include pregnenoloni ?

.

Sargovar
11-22-2010, 06:21 AM
Ok Chilln, here ya go. This is from the Fimea website (the Finnish center of pharmacological safety and development, roughly translated). Here's the link to the site:

http://www.nam.fi/laaketeollisuus/luokittelu/laakeluettelo

And here's the list itself:

http://www.nam.fi/instancedata/prime_product_julkaisu/laakelaitos/embeds/Paatos-liitteet-2009-12-17.pdf

It is as recent as 2009.. no 'pregnenoloni' in there. The names of the medical substances are in Latin, Swedish and Finnish. I could ask my sister, who is a med school student, to see if she has a 2010 printed catalogue of medical substances, but I doubt there has been a change in one year.

chilln
11-22-2010, 07:06 AM
Ok Chilln, here ya go. This is from the Fimea website (the Finnish center of pharmacological safety and development, roughly translated). Here's the link to the site:

http://www.nam.fi/laaketeollisuus/luokittelu/laakeluettelo


From: http://www.nam.fi/laaketeollisuus/luokittelu/laakeluettelo



Luettelo ei ole tyhjentävä.


"The list is not exhaustive."

Sorry to be the bearer of less-than-optimal news, but it's not a legally binding document.

On the other hand, the EU documents I linked to (which are unfortunately outdated) are legal documents, and they all include pregnenoloni.

So you will indeed need to find either the EU document or you'll need to find a Finish legal document (no disclaimers).

.

Sargovar
11-22-2010, 07:47 AM
How is this not "legally binding"? It is a legal, official document used by the customs and medical institutions to determine what is or isn't a controlled substance, not some private person's notion of the medical law. Besides, it's not like there are a million different lists of medical substances in Finland that all contradict each other dramatically; or that this particular list is somehow mysteriously lacking pregnenolone, when it covers everything imaginable under the sun.

However, since you are not satisified, I will ask my father, who is a professor in public health, to provide me with a recent copy of the Pharmaca Fennica, THE definitive authority on the matter. Until I comb through it and return here with an answer, I should say the 2009 list provides you with an answer!
Even if EU law dicatates that all member states should classify pregnenolone as a controlled substance, it does not mean all states will comply.


From: http://www.nam.fi/laaketeollisuus/luokittelu/laakeluettelo



"The list is not exhaustive."

Sorry to be the bearer of less-than-optimal news, but it's not a legally binding document.

On the other hand, the EU documents I linked to (which are unfortunately outdated) are legal documents, and they all include pregnenoloni.

So you will indeed need to find either the EU document or you'll need to find a Finish legal document (no disclaimers).

.

chilln
11-22-2010, 08:00 AM
How is this not "legally binding"? It is a legal, official document used by the customs and medical institutions to determine what is or isn't a controlled substance, not some private person's notion of the medical law.


Because the list is not exhaustive. Ie: if an item is on the list you posted, then you're right.

But if you import an item which is not on the list you posted, then the customs have to go to another document to determine whether that item should be siezed.

That's because the list you posted is not exhaustive. there is another list somewhere else which is the complete list - and that's where you're going to find "pregnenoloni". It's going to be an EU legilsation document, similar to the one I linked to.

The document I linked to is exhaustive. It's complete. It doesn't have any disclaimers saying "this list is not exhaustive".

That's the definition of "not exhaustive". it's a disclaimer.

Do you need further clarification of the term "not exhaustive" ?

.

Knackersyard
11-22-2010, 08:06 AM
Ok Chilln, here ya go. This is from the Fimea website (the Finnish center of pharmacological safety and development, roughly translated). Here's the link to the site:

http://www.nam.fi/laaketeollisuus/luokittelu/laakeluettelo

And here's the list itself:

http://www.nam.fi/instancedata/prime_product_julkaisu/laakelaitos/embeds/Paatos-liitteet-2009-12-17.pdf

It is as recent as 2009.. no 'pregnenoloni' in there. The names of the medical substances are in Latin, Swedish and Finnish. I could ask my sister, who is a med school student, to see if she has a 2010 printed catalogue of medical substances, but I doubt there has been a change in one year.


Are we not missing the point here though? Regardless of whether Preg is legal or not in Finland or UK, the pharmacy in USA won't send it to us :mad:

Sargovar
11-22-2010, 08:11 AM
Because the list is not exhaustive. Ie: if an item is on the list you posted, then you're right.

But if you import an item which is not on the list you posted, then the customs have to go to another document to determine whether that item should be siezed.

That's because the list you posted is not exhaustive. there is another list somewhere else which is the complete list - and that's where you're going to find :pregnenoloni".

That's the definition of "not exhaustive". it's a disclaimer.

Do you need further clarification of the term "not exhaustive" ?

.

And which documents do you suppose the customs will search through? EU documents from a decade ago? EU documents from today? I don't think so. It doesn't work that way here: Finnish law is referred to in these cases.
Every single authorative source of Finnish controlled substances that I've seen so far has some sort of text that you might consider a "disclaimer" - even Pharmaca Fennica (which is considered by many to be the country's definite and comprehensive list) states that it contains information on "most Finnish medical substances and medicinal herbs", or in other words, substances available and prescribed in Finland.

Again I have to reiterate that the last time we checked this (in 2010), pregnenolone was NOT on the customs list of controlled substances. It can be imported for personal use just the same as vitamins and other supplements, and that is the most important point here, regarding possible other Finnish members who might be browsing this site for information, so that they are aware that they can legally import pregnenolone.

Knackersyard, I know this is starting to become a pointless exercise in semantics, and I apologize for that. I don't know how the pharmacy in the US would react if a Finnish citizen were to inquire about a shipment of pregenolone here; I will not comment on that topic. I am only commenting on ordering pregnenolone from non-pharmacy sources.

chilln
11-22-2010, 08:16 AM
And which documents do you suppose the customs will search through?



They're going to look through the document you posted first, and then they're going to look throught he latest EU legislation document which I don't have the language skills to find, and which you are too stubborn to find becaus eyou think incorrectly that a customs official is going to be too lazy to lookup E2 legislation.




Again I have to reiterate that the last time we checked this (in 2010), pregnenolone was NOT on the customs list of controlled substances. It can be imported for personal use just the same as vitamins and other supplements, and that is the most important point here, regarding possible other Finnish members who might be browsing this site for information, so that they are aware that they can legally import pregnenolone.


There is indeed an exhaustive list somewhere. It exists, and it exists online in its exhaustive form, without any disclaimers.

Legal documents are like that. They are the property of everyone. Not a precious few. They are published online.

Just because you can't find it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

The fact that you aren't able to link to it means you haven't found it.

I accept your word that you "found it somewhere but you forget where it is".

I don't accept that you remember that pregnenoloni was not on that exhaustive list. Progesterone is on the customs "sublist". DHEA is on the customs "sublist". Most likely pregnenolone is on the exhaustive list, even though it is not on the customs "sublist".

And until someone finds the exhaustive list, I'm going to continue to advise members in all EU countries / member states , and that includes Finland, that pregnenolone is a controlled substance / drug in all EU countries / members states.

.

Sargovar
11-22-2010, 08:25 AM
I'm not stubborn any more than the customs official is lazy. :biggrin: Last time I ordered something they couldn't find on their most commonly referred list of medical substances (DIM and TMG), they stopped right there and handed the shipment over.
You seem to assume a lot more than you know about our customs and the way it works.

Pharmaca Fennica is also published online but unfortunately I cannot gain access to it because I am not a doctor. The fact that I as a private person cannot access it doesn't make it any less valid.

You're absolutely right: progesterone IS on that list, and so is DHEA. BUT PREGNENOLONE IS NOT. Curiously enough, you can also order DHEA and it gets through just fine. I have many, many experiences with this (not personally, but people I know who use it and order it from the States).


They're going to look through the document you posted first, and then they're going to look throught he latest EU legislation document which I don't have the language skills to find, and which you are too stubborn to find becaus eyou think incorrectly that a customs official is going to be too lazy to lookup E2 legislation.




There is indeed an exhaustive list somewhere. It exists, and it exists online in its exhaustive form, without any disclaimers.

Legal documents are like that. They are the property of everyone. Not a precious few. They are published online.

Just because you can't find it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

The fact that you aren't able to link to it means you haven't found it.

I accept your word that you "found it somewhere but you forget where it is".

I don't accept that you remember that pregnenoloni was not on that exhaustive list. Progesterone is on the customs list. DHEA is on the customs list. Most likely pregnenolone is on the exhaustive list, even though it is not on the customs list.

.

chilln
11-22-2010, 08:31 AM
I'm not stubborn any more than the customs official is lazy. :biggrin: Last time I ordered something they couldn't find on their most commonly referred list of medical substances (DIM and TMG), they stopped right there and handed the shipment over.
You seem to assume a lot more than you know about our customs and the way it works.
...
Curiously enough, you can also order DHEA and it gets through just fine. I have many, many experiences with this (not personally, but people I know who use it and order it from the States).


And there's no way I'm going to suggest to any members that even though the law says one thing, that they should do something else.

I will continue to make statements which are legally correct statements, and I won't advise members to risk breaking Finnish law on the hope that they will encounter a lazy customs official.

And please do not publish on this forum that pregnenolone is not a controlled substance in Finland, unless you or someone else locates the definitive list document discussed above, and pregnenoloni is not on that list.

.

Sargovar
11-22-2010, 08:38 AM
Well you obviously have your own idea of what the Finnish law says, and that's just fine. I won't debate this point any further because it is obviously pointless.
I will however get the Pharmaca Fennica and comb through it, and I will find the customs list I last checked. Until then I will not discuss this further.


And there's no way I'm going to suggest to any members that even though the law says one thing, that they should do something else.

I will continue to make statements which are legally correct statements, and I won't advise members to risk breaking Finnish law on the hope that they will encounter a lazy customs official.

And I know you will continue to do as you please, but please do not publish on this forum that pregnenolone is not a controlled substance, unless you or someone else locates the definitive list document discussed above, and pregnenoloni is not on that list.

.

chilln
11-22-2010, 08:44 AM
Well you obviously have your own idea of what the Finnish law says, and that's just fine. I won't debate this point any further because it is obviously pointless.
I will however get the Pharmaca Fennica and comb through it, and I will find the customs list I last checked. Until then I will not discuss this further.

Before you get too caught up with Finnish law, note that EU law superceded Finnish law, ie:

http://www.united-legal-network.com/finland



Finland is bilingual (Finnish and Swedish) and has mostly ratified EU Directives in due course and EU law is directly applicable and supersedes national law.


That's why I went to the EU legislation pages first. And so should you.

.

chilln
11-23-2010, 09:13 PM
Just found this email in Junk :



Thank you for interest in our products here at University Compounding Pharmacy. Yes we can compound a custom batch of Pregnenolone 20% in lipoderm for a price $49.95 per 30gms, however we can not ship outside of the United States and it does require a prescription from a valid US doctor. Please let me know if there is anything else I can do for you. Thank you,

Michelle Brown, Supervisor
University Compounding Pharmacy
1875 Third Ave
San Diego, CA 92101
(619)683-2005 Ext. 321




and



I'm confused as to why you can buy 2-3% progesterone creams OTC but to get a 10% cream requires a Doc's script...could it be the same issue with preg? You can buy it in low strength OTC but no one yet is willing to sell it at 10 or 20%...perhaps not since you can buy high oral doses. Is there just a threshold for higher strength creams where someone has decided Docs need to get involved?


I've been in contact with:
a) University Compounding Pharmacy, Michigan
and
b) Women's International Pharmacy, Arizona

Both claim that they require a prescription whenever they compounded any product, and that includes products with ingredients which are available over-the-counter.

They both claim that the reason they require a prescription, has the following details:
a) Compounding premises are both a manufacturing premises, and a drug dispensary premises
b) During an audit of a manufacturing premises which manufactures dietary supps, the manufacturer, not the auditer, must validate that the ingredients are indeed dietary, not a drug.
c) By adopting a uniform process that all compounded substances require a prescription, then this requirement is bypassed because all compounded substances are treated as if they were drugs.

I'll add the following self-evident comment: There isn't sufficient market share from the UK and Europe for these small companies to bother to collate conclusive proof that pregnenolone is a dietary supplement.

Note that the FDA does not keep a register of dietary supplements. Evidence that something is a dietary supplement is therefore not trivial. Eg: "LEF sells it as a capsule" is only evidence that someone else might also be breaking the law.

.

medgerton
11-24-2010, 12:59 AM
Good detective work. End of discussion!

chilln
11-24-2010, 01:27 AM
Good detective work. End of discussion!

Let's clear up the issues which arise when we compare transdermal and oral pregnenolone:

TOO-LOW CORTISOL, TREAT VIA PREGNENOLONE
Oral versus Transdermal

In some people, oral pregnenolone is absorbed too quickly.

The pregnenolone converts into cortisol very quickly, which suppresses the next pulse of ACTH (approx one per hour during daylight hours), which will then suppress natural pregnenolone, which will then suppress neurotransmitters, which will then cause drowsiness and brain fog.

In others, oral pregnenolone is metabolized quickly into urinary metabolites leaving very little in the bloodstream for any significant duration.

So oral pregenolone is still of use to the small group of people who don't convert it mostly into urinary metabolites, and who only absorb it relatively slowly so that ACTH is not suppressed (therefore no drowsiness).

It's very easy to determine if you're one of these people, so you can work with your medical professional adviser and run your own trial of oral pregnenolone.

###

However the range of people who can benefit from transdermal pregnenolone is much greater than the small range who can benefit from oral pregnenolone.

Transdermal formulations are absorbed much more slowly than oral formulations, and are initially deposited into subcutaneous fat, and not dumped straight into the bloodstream.

The body fat acts as a slow-release-reservoir, which turns out to be optimal for the vast majority of people.

.

chilln
11-24-2010, 01:33 AM
I will continue to monitor USA transdermal pregnenolone products for the highest concentration off-the-shelf transdermal products.

Please PM me if you're from the UK, and you wish to obtain the latest info about the most concentrated transdermal products.

As usual I don't want to advertise products on this forum. Hence the need for PM.

.

longrob
11-24-2010, 01:48 AM
Let's clear up the issues which arise when we compare transdermal and oral pregnenolone:

TOO-LOW CORTISOL, TREAT VIA PREGNENOLONE
Oral versus Transdermal

In some people, oral pregnenolone is absorbed too quickly.

The pregnenolone converts into cortisol very quickly, which suppresses the next pulse of ACTH (approx one per hour during daylight hours), which will then suppress natural pregnenolone, which will then suppress neurotransmitters, which will then cause drowsiness and brain fog.

In others, oral pregnenolone is metabolized quickly into urinary metabolites leaving very little in the bloodstream for any significant duration.

So oral pregenolone is still of use to the small group of people who don't convert it mostly into urinary metabolites, and who only absorb it relatively slowly so that ACTH is not suppressed (therefore no drowsiness).

It's very easy to determine if you're one of these people, so you can work with your medical professional adviser and run your own trial of oral pregnenolone.

###

However the range of people who can benefit from transdermal pregnenolone is much greater than the small range who can benefit from oral pregnenolone.

Transdermal formulations are absorbed much more slowly than oral formulations, and are initially deposited into subcutaneous fat, and not dumped straight into the bloodstream.

The body fat acts as a slow-release-reservoir, which turns out to be optimal for the vast majority of people.

.

So, am I understanding that TD Preg causes minimal suppression of natural preg? And therefore, even at the small concentrations available OTC, that TD preg's effect would be additive to my natural production.

I was wondering if I would have to supply an amount equal to my natural production, plus some, due to complete suppression.

-Rob

chilln
11-24-2010, 05:42 AM
So, am I understanding that TD Preg causes minimal suppression of natural preg? And therefore, even at the small concentrations available OTC, that TD preg's effect would be additive to my natural production.

I was wondering if I would have to supply an amount equal to my natural production, plus some, due to complete suppression.

-Rob


After commencing pregnenolone supplementation, we don't initially determine optimum pregnenolone supplementation from progesterone labs, we monitor symptoms, as follows:

Here's what happens with optimum pregnenolone dosing:

1) ACTH initially too low, cortisol initially too low, symptoms of tiredness and / or brain fade.
2) Take optimum pregenolone.
3) Pregnenolone levels rise, neurotransmitter levels rise, cortisol levels rise.
4) Symptoms of tiredness / brain fade gradually replaced by alertness.
5) ACTH pulse levels become suppressed a little, not a problem.
6) Pregnenolone levels fall very slowly - at the rate of liver metabolization, cortisol levels fall very slowly - at the rate of liver metabolization.
7) Due to extra neurotransmitters, and gradual reduction in cortisol, ACTH levels gradually increase, maintaining natural pregnenolone production, keeping pregnenolone at higher levels for around 4 to 6 hours.
8) Neurotransmitter boost finally runs out, ACTH falls low, cortisol falls low, but for some this occurs as their body's requirement for neurotransmitters and cortisol are reducing, so this person may not need to apply another dose of pregnenolone.

###

Here's what happens with slightly too high pregnenolone dosing:

1) ACTH initially too low, cortisol initially too low, symptoms of tiredness and / or brain fade.
2) Take too much pregenolone, but not enough to completely replace all of your pregnenolone
3) Pregnenolone levels rise, neurotransmitter levels rise, cortisol levels rise.
4) Symptoms of tiredness / brain fade gradually replaced by alertness.
5) Pregnenolone levels continue to rise, neurotransmitter levels continue to rise, cortisol levels continue to rise.
6) ACTH pulse levels are suppressed back to initial too low levels (or even lower).
7) ACTH suppression of natural pregnenolone means only supplementary pregnenolone is providing nearly all pregnenolone, but it's not enough pregnenolone, and so pregnenolone and cortisol levels return to "too low" within one or two hours from initial application
8) Pregenenlone, neurotransmitters and cortisol stay too low, and symptoms of tiredness / brain fade remain until the late afternoon / early evening when our body's requirement for pregnenolone and cortisol matches our actual low levels of these hormones.

###

Here's what happens with first-half-day pregnenolone replacement dosing (very high dosing):

1) ACTH initially too low, cortisol initially too low, symptoms of tiredness and / or brain fade.
2) Take very high dose pregenolone.
3) Pregnenolone levels rise, neurotransmitter levels rise, cortisol levels rise.
4) Symptoms of tiredness / brain fade gradually replaced by alertness.
5) ACTH levels are suppressed almost completely, but it's not going to be a problem.
6) Pregnenolone levels fall very slowly - at the rate of absorption and liver metabolization, cortisol levels fall very slowly - at the rate of liver metabolization.
7) ACTH remains suppressed, but there's so much transdermal pregnenolone, that we don't need ACTH to trigger any natural pregnenolone synthesis.
8) After 6 to 8 hours, neurotransmitter boost finally runs out, ACTH, pregnenolone, neurotransmitters and cortisol return to their original values (low, but not completely suppressed). For some this occurs as their body's requirement for neurotransmitters and cortisol are reducing, so this person may not need to apply another dose of pregnenolone. Others will indeed need to re-dose, but with a lot less pregnenolone since the second half of the day's pregnenolone requirement is a lot less than the first half of the day.

##

After optimizing transdermal pregnenolone dosages based on symptoms, then remeasure eiher serum pregnenolone or serum progesterone to record new baseline levels. We do this to be able to revisit this same level in the future, in case we start having to introduce other hormone supps, which may feedback on pregnenolone and progesterone, such as HCG.

.

Dadoo
01-09-2011, 06:09 PM
Personnally, i have replaced my 75 mg of MLM Preg by 60 mg of TD Preg cream.
I still don't feel the need to go back on HC - my main goal is to balance my low cortisol levels.

The only difference i have noticed so far ( since a week) : i have more dreams at night.
A sleep study without and on TD preg ?

But i don't know if i can still manage to apply about 6 cc of Preg cream at 1% daily, in the long run ( No access to compounding pharmacies).
which TD preg do you use? biovea? costs?

frenchiman
01-10-2011, 01:31 AM
so has anyone successfully order TD pregnenolone to Canada?

or know what the deal is?

I want to order the Life-Flo Preg 2 oz. To Toronto..

I'll be pissed if it doesn't make it past customs..

neelydan
01-10-2011, 08:08 AM
Talk to diesel, think he has. Can also get it prescribed, but i think it'll be about 300 bucks for a 6 week supply.

frenchiman
01-10-2011, 09:52 PM
That's hella expensive. Can't even afford that actually :S

Thanks tho.

diesiel
01-10-2011, 10:11 PM
Really depends on how much you use.

You can get em for about 9 bucks online, i remember seeing a site that had them for that price + shipping.

Each container holds 600 MG Of PREG if i'm not mistaken,

You may need as little as 15 mg, you may need as much as 600mg.

frenchiman
01-10-2011, 10:14 PM
diesiel are you from canada?

know the custom laws on Preg in canada?

or where would I even get a prescription for it here?
Prescription is too lengthy actually. I would much rather just order online.

diesiel
01-10-2011, 10:39 PM
Dunno, i ordered it from iherb and it came fine

Sharpman28
04-08-2011, 12:19 PM
I am thinking of ordering 100gram preg from
the USA, but I am a bit afraid that I might get
a problem with customs.

The preg capsules I have always ordered via ebay
from a seller in the uk. No customs check because
shipping is within EU.

Does anybody know whether preg powder is sold
is being sold by a person in the UK or any other
european union country? I would gladly pay more
just to not get problems with custom.

Sharpman

chilln
04-13-2011, 01:29 AM
I am thinking of ordering 100gram preg from
the USA, but I am a bit afraid that I might get
a problem with customs.

The preg capsules I have always ordered via ebay
from a seller in the uk. No customs check because
shipping is within EU.

Does anybody know whether preg powder is sold
is being sold by a person in the UK or any other
european union country? I would gladly pay more
just to not get problems with custom.

Sharpman

As with all legal advice, you need to seek your own from a professional legal adviser.

Here's the info I've been able to compile, re UK Personal Importation and Personal Use of Hormone Modulating Supps (http://www.allthingsmale.com/forum/showthread.php?15412#post120091)

.