How to Apply Testosterone Gel (Androgel or Testim)

[Dr. John Crisler]

For application of commerical (Big Pharma) products. They are 1% gels.

When using compounded meds, I go with either 5% or 10% mixes. Most can simply apply them to their forearms.

With any of these products, be careful not to accidentally transfer same to children, or females who may be pregnant. A simple T-shirt covering the area of application has been shown to block accidental transfer.

http://www.allthingsmale.com/word_docs/ApplyAndrogel.doc

[Wise Guy]

What is the absorbtion time of the compounded stuff? How long to wait before working out/sweating/swimming?

[Dr. John Crisler]

Ooh. My first actual answer on this Forum:

That is a complicated question, as it differs secondary to type of base, concentration and the individual.

Having said that, we can even all that out by employing 24 hour urine testing, as doing so tells us how much got in. The amounts of metabolites are useful as well.

[Dr. John Crisler]

I should have titled this thread "How to Apply Man Gel".

Test cyp is, then, "Man Oil".

Thanks to my good friend Karl Glarner, owner of the Red Salamander Brew Supply store (where I get what I need to make beer and cider), for the above phrases.

[Wise Guy]

I should have titled this thread "How to Apply Man Gel".

Test cyp is, then, "Man Oil".

Thanks to my good friend Karl Glarner, owner of the Red Salamander Brew Supply store (where I get what I need to make beer and cider), for the above phrases.

Oh, you brew your own beer. Cool.

Back to question - Can one make the assumption that a younger person would absorb faster? How bout a thinner person?

Someone mentioned something about the thyroid gland affecting absorbtion.

Awesome to have this board!

[hardasnails1973]

I have notice some drs have pateints apply it 2 times a day about 8 hours part at 1/2 dosage each time. What are the advantages to this? Does this method cause less aromatization for some? To me it appears to be some kind of pulse dosing.

[Bill-NJ]

I have notice some drs have pateints apply it 2 times a day about 8 hours part at 1/2 dosage each time. What are the advantages to this? Does this method cause less aromatization for some? To me it appears to be some kind of pulse dosing.

When I was using a compounded cream I was applying it 2 times a day approx 10 hours apart 2 grams a day 1 gram each application

[Dr. John Crisler]

When there is an absorption problem, as evidenced by lack of clinical response, failure of serum/urine androgen AND metabolite rise, lack of suppression of gonadotropins, etc., I do look to thyroid status first.

Yes, applying TD's BID is usually better.

[Bulldog]

I'm assuming that applying the gel/cream at the same time every day is important? So what if I don't always shower first thing in the morning? For instance, on the weekends I frequently get up, eat breakfast and do yard work for a few hours first thing in the morning and wait to shower when I'm done working. Should I still apply the gel/cream first thing in the morning even if I'm not going to shower for a few hours (2-4 hr.), or should I wait until I'm done working and take a shower to apply it then?

What if I am immediately going to be going to the beach or have a need to apply sunscreen right after I apply the gel/cream? Can I apply the sunscreen right after the gel/cream dries? And what if I don't apply a sunscreen, does the gel/cream make your skin more prone to sunburn in the areas it was applied to?

With summer here these are some things I have been thinking about.

Also, with a cream you recommend applying it to your forearms. But with short sleeve shirts being then norm in the summer, is that still the best application site? Where else is a good place to apply a cream if the forearms aren't preferred when the entire arm won't be covered by a shirt?

[Dr. John Crisler]

I'm assuming that applying the gel/cream at the same time every day is important? So what if I don't always shower first thing in the morning? For instance, on the weekends I frequently get up, eat breakfast and do yard work for a few hours first thing in the morning and wait to shower when I'm done working. Should I still apply the gel/cream first thing in the morning even if I'm not going to shower for a few hours (2-4 hr.), or should I wait until I'm done working and take a shower to apply it then?

What if I am immediately going to be going to the beach or have a need to apply sunscreen right after I apply the gel/cream? Can I apply the sunscreen right after the gel/cream dries? And what if I don't apply a sunscreen, does the gel/cream make your skin more prone to sunburn in the areas it was applied to?

With summer here these are some things I have been thinking about.

Also, with a cream you recommend applying it to your forearms. But with short sleeve shirts being then norm in the summer, is that still the best application site? Where else is a good place to apply a cream if the forearms aren't preferred when the entire arm won't be covered by a shirt?
I tell my guys to just do the best they can.

If it's going to be several hours before risking losing the gel to training or swimming, go ahead and put it on.

Yes, it's best to apply at the same time each day. ESPECIALLY the day you do testing for me.

[GirlyMan]

Yes, it's best to apply at the same time each day. ESPECIALLY the day you do testing for me.

That is very interesting. Thanks.

[Bulldog]

If it's going to be several hours before risking losing the gel to training or swimming, go ahead and put it on.
So then it is OK to apply in the morning without taking a shower first as long as it will be several hours before you swim, shower etc.?

I like the idea of applying T cream to the forearms because it is an area that would be easily washed off if I knew I would be wrestling around with my son (or wife :D ) But I'm also concerned about transferal in the summer months when I will be wearing short sleeve shirts and tank tops all the time.

Other than the forearms, what are the acceptable areas for applying a compounded testosterone cream?

Should you pick one location and apply the cream to that same location all the time or is it OK to change the location from time to time depending on the weather, clothing being worn, etc.? I'm asking because I'm assuming that your absorption may be different for different areas of the body.

[harrym]

This site is so helpful for a total newbie. I am to start the gel in a day or two and reading all of this sure helps.

[Devon]

I didn't really know that forearms were the best -- been applying to the upper arm/shoulder area.

[Bulldog]

I didn't really know that forearms were the best -- been applying to the upper arm/shoulder area.

Are you using Androgel/Testim or compounded gel/cream? Androgel and Testim should be applied to the shoulders and upper arm area. Compounded gel/cream should be applied to the forearms.

Since Androgel and Testim are only 1% you don't really lose much on your hands applying it to the shoulders. But you can't do that with a 5% compounded gel/cream because you would lose to much on your hands.

[Devon]

Are you using Androgel/Testim or compounded gel/cream? Androgel and Testim should be applied to the shoulders and upper arm area. Compounded gel/cream should be applied to the forearms.

Since Androgel and Testim are only 1% you don't really lose much on your hands applying it to the shoulders. But you can't do that with a 5% compounded gel/cream because you would lose to much on your hands.

Yeah, compounded. Will try the forearms, then.

[krazy]

Dr. C,

If, after 1 hour of applying like you mention, I want to engage in intimacy, do I have *anything* to worry about? What if it's a nice summer day, I can't take a shower prior, my girlfriend is by, and we want some afternoon delight outside in a meadow of flowers or something (and I applied my gel only 1-2 hrs prior)? :thumbup1:

And, is showering/swimming the same as working out? (i.e. Does the same 1 hr restriction apply on gym time?)

Thanks :)

[GuitarCrazyo]

I was recently looking up LRG themes on google when I came across this site .. I downloaded tha necessary files for tha theme and now dont know how to apply them to my iPod

any help or suggestions??

thanks

[Lucky1]

Are you using Androgel/Testim or compounded gel/cream? Androgel and Testim should be applied to the shoulders and upper arm area. Compounded gel/cream should be applied to the forearms.

Since Androgel and Testim are only 1% you don't really lose much on your hands applying it to the shoulders. But you can't do that with a 5% compounded gel/cream because you would lose to much on your hands.

Does it matter if the compound cream is applied on the inside of the forearm or the outside?

[pmgamer18]

When I was on it I put it on the inside there is less hair there.

[Lucky1]

When I was on it I put it on the inside there is less hair there.

Thanks you, for the reply!!

[JRA]

I use a compounded gel 100mg/ml and I apply .5ml to my scrotum first thing in the morning and .5 same place in the evening.

The absorption rate is better and you don't have to worry about it being transfered during the day.

[hebsie]

I use a compounded gel 100mg/ml and I apply .5ml to my scrotum first thing in the morning and .5 same place in the evening.

The absorption rate is better and you don't have to worry about it being transfered during the day.

...the 5-alpha reductase enzymes are highly concentrated in the skin of the scrotum. Please post your current DHT labs...hebs

[JRA]

...the 5-alpha reductase enzymes are highly concentrated in the skin of the scrotum. Please post your current DHT labs...hebs

My DHEA as of 11-15-09 was 72, range 25-240 mcg/.

My DHT as of 11-15-09 was 28, range 25-75 ng/dl.

This application method may not work for everyone.

[Wise Guy]

My DHEA as of 11-15-09 was 72, range 25-240 mcg/.

My DHT as of 11-15-09 was 28, range 25-75 ng/dl.

This application method may not work for everyone.

JRA,

Some of us have come to the conclusion that DHT serum values might not be all that accurate, and that a 24 hour urinary analysis often yields different results.

It did as well for me

25 (25 - 75) serum
11 (0 - 13) Urine

[JRA]

JRA,

Some of us have come to the conclusion that DHT serum values might not be all that accurate, and that a 24 hour urinary analysis often yields different results.

It did as well for me

25 (25 - 75) serum
11 (0 - 13) Urine

I have had no hair loss or any of the other symptoms of excessive DHT levels.
I believe as does my doctor that DHT when balanced with the other hormones can have a positive effect.

[JanSz]

JRA,

Some of us have come to the conclusion that DHT serum values might not be all that accurate, and that a 24 hour urinary analysis often yields different results.

It did as well for me

25 (25 - 75) serum
11 (0 - 13) Urine

If that was 24hr urine test at RheinLabs
post it in its entirety.

There is about a dozen of analytes measured there for the purpose of avaluating 5aR/5bR issues.

..

[n00bs]

I have had no hair loss or any of the other symptoms of excessive DHT levels.
I believe as does my doctor that DHT when balanced with the other hormones can have a positive effect.

Yes that is what i have been reading as well, plus its more potent then test so on the scrotum it goes :w00t:

[00slotiv]

When there is an absorption problem, as evidenced by lack of clinical response, failure of serum/urine androgen AND metabolite rise, lack of suppression of gonadotropins, etc., I do look to thyroid status first.

Yes, applying TD's BID is usually better.

Am at least considering this. Can someone explain to me why twice a day is better?

Less (excessive) DHT? Additonal variability? Gels or creams lose effectiveness after 10-12 hours?

I'd have to apply it between 4 and 6 in the morning and wouldn't be able to work out in the gym until 7 at night, which is 15-13 hours later. After a long hard day at work, I wonder how much T there would still be to workout before bed. I'd be more comfortable with twice.

Not the best time to lift but for the time being, during the week, the only opportunity.

Love the injections but maybe...

Bob

[chilln]

Am at least considering this. Can someone explain to me why twice a day is better?

Less (excessive) DHT? Additonal variability? Gels or creams lose effectiveness after 10-12 hours?

I'd have to apply it between 4 and 6 in the morning and wouldn't be able to work out in the gym until 7 at night, which is 15-13 hours later. After a long hard day at work, I wonder how much T there would still be to workout before bed. I'd be more comfortable with twice.

Not the best time to lift but for the time being, during the week, the only opportunity.

Love the injections but maybe...

Bob

Those who metabolize transdermal T (testosterone) quickly need to apply twice per day, those who metabolize transdermal T slowly only need to apply once per day.

The rate at which you metabolize transdermal T cannot be determined theoretically in advance.

You and your medical professional adviser must conduct therapeutic trials (dosage response trials) to confirm where your body lies.

.

[RickWalia]

Has anyone had problem with this and there dog? Im pretty sure my dog will smell something is up... Thanks

[n00bs]

JRA,

Some of us have come to the conclusion that DHT serum values might not be all that accurate, and that a 24 hour urinary analysis often yields different results.

It did as well for me

25 (25 - 75) serum
11 (0 - 13) Urine

But is DHT as bad as everyone makes it out to be?
I was under the impression that DHT is vital for muscles and organs and libido?

Besides possible prostate and hair issues acne ect is there really anything to worry about?

[Picton]

Has anyone had problem with this and there dog? Im pretty sure my dog will smell something is up... Thanks

My dog just sits there while I put mine on! Not one of these sniff-obsessed dogs like my other dog WAS though!

Nothing in gels that would be attractive though, the gels and alcohol have solvents, and dogs don't necessarily like those smells.

[RickWalia]

Your instruction on using the Gel is as easy as they get..
But still here is a video i came across accidentally that shows it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0i5nU74Z4ZM

[TX Tornado]

Am I reading this right? Andro gel works best if put on right after showering and drying off?

[Bulldog]

Am I reading this right? Andro gel works best if put on right after showering and drying off?

Yep, you're reading it right.

[pmgamer18]

Also if you just spread it around good but don't rub it in let it dry from wet it works better.

Yep, you're reading it right.

[DrTabby]

Ok Guys I need about 10 of you using androgel for a test group. The only requirement is that you have a male dog in the home.

If you do can you tell me if

1. they have had any behavioral (more aggressive behavior) then before you started using it.

2. What type do is it?
3. About how much it weighs?
4. Is he neutered?


Non neutered pre-gel good tempermented dogs would be the best subjects but Ill take whatever I can get. I am writing a paper. I have my pre-paper approved by Abbott Labs, now I just need experimenters to answer those 4 questions above.

Thanks
Dr Tabby
Respond to DrNUtkov at aol.com

[GirlyMan]

Non neutered pre-gel good tempermented dogs would be the best subjects but Ill take whatever I can get.

Your first post feels suspicious to me, but I'll give you this. My experience pre-gel with neutered ill-tempered abused dogs (the kind my wife likes to rescue, foster and rehabilitate in preparation for adoption) was getting bit (they're lucky to be alive in my county - and they can't be adopted out because of it, so by biting me they become my problem, clever bastards), my experience post-gel is that all of them stop barking when I come into the room. Is that your hypothesis?

[may19th2001]

I wonder how Dr Tabby did with his/her paper.


Your first post feels suspicious to me, but I'll give you this. My experience pre-gel with neutered ill-tempered abused dogs (the kind my wife likes to rescue, foster and rehabilitate in preparation for adoption) was getting bit (they're lucky to be alive in my county - and they can't be adopted out because of it, so by biting me they become my problem, clever bastards), my experience post-gel is that all of them stop barking when I come into the room. Is that your hypothesis?

[may19th2001]

She has her Degree and a Masters in Bio Chemistry.

She is a real person and is doing a study.


I wonder how Dr Tabby did with his/her paper.

[TRT Man]

Are you using Androgel/Testim or compounded gel/cream? Androgel and Testim should be applied to the shoulders and upper arm area. Compounded gel/cream should be applied to the forearms.

Since Androgel and Testim are only 1% you don't really lose much on your hands applying it to the shoulders. But you can't do that with a 5% compounded gel/cream because you would lose to much on your hands.

Hi - I am new here. I have been on a compounded 5%T gel for over 10 years. Why would I lose more on my hands if applying to my shoulder versus my forearm? Also, I have scarring from a motorcycle accident on one forearm...I assume it would be best not to apply it there as absorption would be compromised. Is that a safe assumption?

[tomthegasman]

Hi, I have a question on applying Androgel. It seems most guys just spread it on and let dry. When I do that, much of it just drys to a whitish crust. And since I am hairy all over, I've been spreading it on with a plastic applicator that autobody guys use to apply bondo, using it to really press the Androgel into the skin. This also doesn't leave any residue on the hands. Is this OK? Thanks,Tom

[scottw57]

I've been using compounded Gel because I have no insurance. I now have insurance and see that they cover Androgel. It will be cheaper for me now (I was paying $75 per month for compound). So what dose of androgel should I convert to? My compound prescription syringe reads: "Testosterone Gel Syringe: 50mg/2ml Gel (Apply 2ml in morning)"

Thanks!

[hebsie]

I've been using compounded Gel because I have no insurance. I now have insurance and see that they cover Androgel. It will be cheaper for me now (I was paying $75 per month for compound). So what dose of androgel should I convert to? My compound prescription syringe reads: "Testosterone Gel Syringe: 50mg/2ml Gel (Apply 2ml in morning)"

Thanks!

...with the new 1.62% Androgel, it's listed as 40.5mg per (2) pumps -- so approx 20mg per pump.

With the original 1% Androgel, it's listed as 12.5mg per (1) pump -- so 12.5mg per pump.

With your compounded gel you're currently applying 2ml (50mg/2ml) -- so 50mg of T per day.

We can't advise on dosing, but assuming the absorption rates are basically the same, the math is pretty straight-forward...hebs

[scottw57]

Thanks you so much! I flunked math but I think I understand it. I will call my doctor and see if I can get 3 pump per day prescription of the new 1.62% Androgel (or 4 pumps of old 1% Androgel) I think going 10ml higher rather than lower makes sense. It looks like I need to re-train my application of gel from inside wrist spreading on forearm to putting it on my hands and spreading to shoulders. Hmmm..I just hate that I have to wash my hands after applying (so I dont spread to anyone by shaking their hand!). Feels like I will lose some results too. I put the compound on the inside of my wrist and spread on forearm.
Just a side note...I use to be on antidepressants for years...well it turns out I never needed them.. It was low testosterone causing me all the problems! When I went to wekken clinic the doc ask me if I had a testostrone check...never have..the test came is around 270. I'm only 46. After about 3-4 weeks I weened off the effexor and onto testorone and have never felt better in my life. I went years misdiagnosed. Thanks again!

[August59]

...with the new 1.62% Androgel, it's listed as 40.5mg per (2) pumps -- so approx 20mg per pump.

With the original 1% Androgel, it's listed as 12.5mg per (1) pump -- so 12.5mg per pump.

With your compounded gel you're currently applying 2ml (50mg/2ml) -- so 50mg of T per day.

We can't advise on dosing, but assuming the absorption rates are basically the same, the math is pretty straight-forward...hebs

My endo has it in his head that 2 pumps from the 1.69% is the same as 4 pumps of the 1%. 40.5 mg doesn't equal 50 mg unless there is something that says the absorbtion rate is different, which is something I have yet to find. I geuss he will find out when he does labwork and pushes me to 3 pumps as 4 pumps of the 1% was his absolute minimum.

Has there been a clear cut explanation for coming out with the 1.67% other than it is probably a cost savings from a manufacturing stand point and thus they can make more money from it?

[WhatTheF]

My endo has it in his head that 2 pumps from the 1.69% is the same as 4 pumps of the 1%. 40.5 mg doesn't equal 50 mg unless there is something that says the absorbtion rate is different, which is something I have yet to find. I geuss he will find out when he does labwork and pushes me to 3 pumps as 4 pumps of the 1% was his absolute minimum.

Has there been a clear cut explanation for coming out with the 1.67% other than it is probably a cost savings from a manufacturing stand point and thus they can make more money from it?

...have heard the cynical reasoning that the patent may be running out on the 1% product...have not researched myself

[Edmundo]

Is it true applying to fatty areas increases estrogen? My e2 is below the normal range and I'm at a loss on how to increase it.

[dwx]

I read that applying to the forearms is best, why?
Is it because the skin is thinner there and there's less fat than on the stomach or shoulders?

And how can you find out how quickly the testosterone gets metabolized and if one needs to apply once or twice a day?

[pmgamer18]

You know it is odd when I was on gels putting the gel on my belly fat drove up my Estrdiol levels big time. Yet now I am on shots doing them subQ into my belly fat and it helps to keep my estradiol levels down.

[Dr. John Crisler]

You know it is odd when I was on gels putting the gel on my belly fat drove up my Estrdiol levels big time. Yet now I am on shots doing them subQ into my belly fat and it helps to keep my estradiol levels down.THAT is an excellent observation.

The skin is the difference in the process.

[dwx]

What place is best to apply gel? Forearms? Those places with lowest fat?

[may19th2001]

From my understanind the forearms are the best, Dr Crisler does have a video that shows how to apply it on his website also. I think that the way he practices now is very much becomming mainstream. I have heard a lot more Mid level Practioners as well as Physicians prescribe Arimidex and other such drugs.

Dr. Crisler is a really good Dr for HRT, however some patients have problems that need to be treated outside the normal spectrum of HRT treatments such as severe and Chronic immune disorders. Such as the one that destroyed my testicles which was of the Orchitis type. I never knew how many immune disorders one could develop or learn they have. Testosterone or HRT can help mask these problems.

[Nate92]

Hi Doctor Crisler.
I have a very important question. I have heard answers from all over the spectrum regarding transference with Androgel. I have a girlfriend and this is a concern, as I am sure it is for most. I know that no women or child should ever touch the gel before it has dried, but how about when it has? If a woman or child was to touch the gel after it dried would it be much of an issue?

Also, does the time period the gel has been on your skin affect transference? Since the skin can be cleansed after two hours, I assume this is the time-frame that provides maximum absorption. Following this time-frame, does the risk lessen?

Thank you.

[Dr. John Crisler]

I think your questions will be answered if you watch the video.
Hi Doctor Crisler.
I have a very important question. I have heard answers from all over the spectrum regarding transference with Androgel. I have a girlfriend and this is a concern, as I am sure it is for most. I know that no women or child should ever touch the gel before it has dried, but how about when it has? If a woman or child was to touch the gel after it dried would it be much of an issue?

Also, does the time period the gel has been on your skin affect transference? Since the skin can be cleansed after two hours, I assume this is the time-frame that provides maximum absorption. Following this time-frame, does the risk lessen?

Thank you.

[Nate92]

I think your questions will be answered if you watch the video.

I have watched the video. I was just looking for more detail. I recall you saying that during the test where the man rubbed on a women with the testosterone gel applied, it resulted in a slight increase of her own levels. But it failed to mention what the adverse effects of this increase was. I appreciate the forearm method of application, but it of course is more risky. I don't want my girlfriend to touch my skin and experience any discomfort.

Also, previously in this thread you mentioned that thyroid issues could affect absorption of gels. How does this happen and what chemicals are involved? I have heard numerous accounts of testosterone gels losing their effectiveness.

[hendrix]

THAT is an excellent observation.

The skin is the difference in the process.
I thought the difference was that test cyp has an ester attached, which isn't cleaved until it reaches the blood stream. So the testosterone molecule itself is inert and doesn't react with the enzymes while outside the bloodstream. Where, the testosterone from androgel is active right away and able to interact with enzymes in the skin and fat before hitting the bloodstream.

[Nate92]

Hello Doctor Crisler: My Androgel 1.62% arrived in the mail frozen. Is this okay to use? Or should I request a new shipment?

[ziggu256]

I watched the video and just wanted to check a few details for applying 10g of Androgel / Testogel (uk) 1% version.

Twice per day, for example 8am & 8pm

Apply to forearms and wipe in flanks

Shower again if possible for evening application?

I know there is a link between low thyroid and poor absorption, any link between high SHGB and absorption?

[Dr. John Crisler]

I watched the video and just wanted to check a few details for applying 10g of Androgel / Testogel (uk) 1% version.

Twice per day, for example 8am & 8pm

Apply to forearms and wipe in flanks

Shower again if possible for evening application?

I know there is a link between low thyroid and poor absorption, any link between high SHGB and absorption?The second dose may keep you up if you apply it that late.

Have no thoughts about SHBG and TD absorption.

[ziggu256]

Thanks for response Dr C.

Due to morning gym training my AM dose has to be 8am I could do the evening one at 6.30pm, would this likely be better?

Thanks for comment on SHBG

Great forum BTW


The second dose may keep you up if you apply it that late.

Have no thoughts about SHBG and TD absorption.

[Dr. John Crisler]

Thanks for response Dr C.

Due to morning gym training my AM dose has to be 8am I could do the evening one at 6.30pm, would this likely be better?

Thanks for comment on SHBG

Great forum BTWTo make sure I understand, you shower after training at 8AM?

[ziggu256]

Yes that right hit the gym at 6.30am train, finish then shower, gel goes on c 8am each day :)



To make sure I understand, you shower after training at 8AM?

[Dr. John Crisler]

Yes that right hit the gym at 6.30am train, finish then shower, gel goes on c 8am each day :)Because you train first thing in the morning, you will be at your lowest T level then.

Sometimes my guys use a testosterone troche before they train in this situation.

As late at night as possible for your second application then gives you the most for in the morning.

[ziggu256]

Thanks Dr C

I will try 10pm, just before I go to bed hopefully I will get to sleep before the gel kicks in and keeps me awake?

BTW I hope you get your legals troubles resolved, NOTHING worse than being falsely accused of a crime. Keep fighting at least you are in the US, which should mean that the truth will shine through in the end, altough it will cost you a lot of $ to get that truth uncovered!



Because you train first thing in the morning, you will be at your lowest T level then.

Sometimes my guys use a testosterone troche before they train in this situation.

As late at night as possible for your second application then gives you the most for in the morning.